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I have a Belgian made Mauser rifle in 7x57. I believe it�s from the early 1960s. The maker is H. Dumoulin and it looks like an FN sporting action, except it seems lighter and possibly shorter than the standard length FNs I�ve seen before. It�s got around a 20� barrel and a mannlicher style full stock. Except for rather plain wood the rifle has a very nice level of fit and finish. I worked up one load for it, 120 grain TSX bullets over H414 at around 2800-2900 fps. From the bench, it will easily shoot 100 yard 3 shot groups of 3/4 of an inch or less, but it has a frustrating habit that prevents me from using it with any confidence in the field: From a clean barrel the first shots are 3-4� high. Gradually the POI lowers down and the groups tighten up until after 12-15 shots or so I�m getting the small groups I described.
What I�ve done so far is to just not clean the rifle during hunting season, but my concern is how much of the vertical stringing is due to starting shooting with a stone cold barrel and how much is effected by the buildup of fouling. When the rifle sits in the safe for a month is that fouling going to harden up or otherwise change and affect the point of impact of that first shot? I know I need to do more experimenting with it. My main request is for recommendations as to how I should approach and fix this problem, if that�s possible, but I�m interested in hearing any comments or observations about this issue. It�s a fantastic little rifle, a delight to carry and shoot off hand. I�d love to figure out how to make it a reliable deer gun.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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Next time at the range, shoot the rifle till its fouled, then set it aside till its completely cooled. Shoot again. That'll let you know how much POI is affected by clean barrel, and how much by cold barrel...
If indeed it is the clean barrel that causes the stringing, keep it fouled from before till after hunting season...
I foul every rifle I might hunt with before season starts, and leave 'em that way.....
Most of them have a slightly different POI on the first shot from a clean Bbl...
And my fave is a 7x57...
Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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I bet your problem is the mannlicher style full stock.
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that is not at all uncommon. A totally clean barrel does not always equal an accurate barrel. Your rifle is speaking to you, and you should listen to it. What it is saying is that it likes a little bit of copper build up before it groups consistently. And the little bit of powder fouling just smoothes things out a bit. All of my rifles behave similarly. What you need to find out is how many rounds does it take for accuracy to fall off. That will tell you when it is time to clean your barrel.
I had a H. Dumoulin stamped 300 Winch that was a beautiful rifle. The rifles made by Henri Dumoulin, such as yours, are much more desireable than those made by his son whom I forgot his name.
This is God's universe, and he has a plan. You might think that you have aa better plan, but you don't have a universe.
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+1. If you're shooting groups that heat up the barrel in practice, the contact with the fore-end might be changing the POI. If that's the case, shooting it cold-fouled should give you the answer. A practical solution might be to just sight in for the first cold-bore group and take it hunting. It shouldn't take more than 1 -or 2- well placed shots to end most hunts. Unless you're after elephants or rodents! 
Last edited by Wildcatter264; 07/12/09.
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My old Ruger M77 in .257 RBTS was that way too. If the barrel was clean the first group would be 2" to 2 1/2", then the second group would tighten up to about 1 1/2", finally it would hit 1" on the third group and on. I learned to dry patch, dry brush, and then dry patch the bore when cleaning (still used solvent in the chamber). It would shoot 1" groups from a cool & fouled, or a warm & fouled barrel - just had to be fouled. I only used bore solvent in that rifle if it got wet, or at the end of the season.
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.
Archibald Rutledge
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've gotten to the point where all of my rifles have fouled barrels almost constantly. Even the super smooth, Pac-Nor Super Match barreled rifles, which only show an inch or less change in POI for the first one or two shots, out of a cleaned to the bare metal barrel, are left that way.
Some of my factory barrels require as many as 8 rds. before they shoot as they should
I learned long ago that that is the best way to keep them. If I'm hunting a wet climate, I may run a couple of oiled patches through them. And then one dry patch to reduce the oil buildup.
I no longer worry about my barrels corroding. They either get shot often enough or the oil patch routine. Haven't had one go bad yet. E
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my savage 16 in 308 will print the 1st 2 rounds out of a clean barrel approximately 2 inches high and 2 inches to the left at 100yds. that is why I foul the barrel the week before hunting season opens and don't touch it again till season closes. if for some reason, I do have to clean it, I will go to the range and shoot 5 rounds thru it. 2 to foul it and 3 to check zero.
Retired U.S. Army
LM-NRA,GOA,& MOAA.
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How lucky can you be? A rifle that will only shoot its best when its dirty? Saves a lot of work!
`Bring Enough Gun`
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Campfire Ranger
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I have a Belgian made Mauser rifle in 7x57. I believe it�s from the early 1960s. The maker is H. Dumoulin and it looks like an FN sporting action, except it seems lighter and possibly shorter than the standard length FNs I�ve seen before. It�s got around a 20� barrel and a mannlicher style full stock. Except for rather plain wood the rifle has a very nice level of fit and finish. I worked up one load for it, 120 grain TSX bullets over H414 at around 2800-2900 fps. From the bench, it will easily shoot 100 yard 3 shot groups of 3/4 of an inch or less, but it has a frustrating habit that prevents me from using it with any confidence in the field: From a clean barrel the first shots are 3-4� high. Gradually the POI lowers down and the groups tighten up until after 12-15 shots or so I�m getting the small groups I described.
What I�ve done so far is to just not clean the rifle during hunting season, but my concern is how much of the vertical stringing is due to starting shooting with a stone cold barrel and how much is effected by the buildup of fouling. When the rifle sits in the safe for a month is that fouling going to harden up or otherwise change and affect the point of impact of that first shot? I know I need to do more experimenting with it. My main request is for recommendations as to how I should approach and fix this problem, if that�s possible, but I�m interested in hearing any comments or observations about this issue. It�s a fantastic little rifle, a delight to carry and shoot off hand. I�d love to figure out how to make it a reliable deer gun. why do you bother to clean your rifles after every range trip?
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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My question exactly.
I keep a log-book that includes everything on each of the rifles I own. Every rifle is different. Some will shoot great with a clean barrel and some take a dozen fouling rounds or even more.
H414 is a fairly dirty-burning powder. My guess is that it is helping to fill the imperfections in the bore. This is common.
My advice would to be clean it as little as possible, and then only gently, so that part of the "fouling" (which actually smooths things out) remains in the bore.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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I foul every rifle I might hunt with before season starts, and leave 'em that way..... Me too.
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Not sure where or when (or even why) I picked up the notion that one should clean a rifle after every session at the range, but that's what I've always done. From now on wait until accuracy starts to suffer, and then clean it gently, as recommended.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Dumoulin used to use FN Actions.They made a fine rifle.I always wanted a 7 X 57 in a Mannlicher stock.
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Isn't cleaning a gun after a day of shooting (when possible) a military tradition? The practice probably started in the (corrosive) blackpowder days, still had benefit with corrosive cartridge ammo, and still has benefit today for proper functioning of automatic and semi-auto weapons. I have a feeling military training, that was also passed on to people who weren't in the military, has caused many people to unnecessarily clean their hunting rifles after every time shooting.
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I find this all very interesting,
I have had similer situations with different rifles, butnever with the barnes tripple shocks.
Thaey have allways wanted a clean bore...tj3006
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Dumoulin used to use FN Actions.They made a fine rifle.I always wanted a 7 X 57 in a Mannlicher stock. I just did a quick search on gunbroker.com and saw a couple of nice 7x57s including a Ruger RSI and a CZ22H.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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tj3006,
I have shot a great many small groups with TSX's from a well-fouled bore--and often when the bore had already been fouled by other brands of bullets, which some TSX fans consider a real no-no.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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The original Barnes X's I couldn't get to shoot in anything but clean bores, and frequently not even then. TSX's, on the other hand, I have found to be like you say, and I frequently test loads at the range with a variety of bullets, including TSX's. They've done just fine in all the rifles I've tried them in, except two older tang-safety Ruger 77's. They tend to be real touchy about everything...imagine that...  . Dennis
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
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FWIW
I used to clean bores after every session, so I have "broken in" a lot of bores multiple times.
Following muledeers and others comments here caused me to try the minimal cleaning philosophy. My average groups are smaller and I spend a heck of a lot less time with bore solvent on my hands.
Once you give less cleaning a real test, you will never look back. IMHO
Tim
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Albert Einstein
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