Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Tracks Across Africa --- and Lever Gun

MJ1, you truly are an azzhat of the highest caliber. Tis a bunch of bullschit bringing someone's wife into the fight. I guarantee if it were me, you had damn well best live out yer life looking over your shoulder, cause my main lot in life would be to be find you and wipe the nearest wall clean with your goofy ass!

Difficult to respond to this character without being extremely profane.

I think I did purty well, didn't open the canonades yet.

Let me get this straight..........

This dude pops up, and immediately launches into an insult of Jorge's wife?

MJ1, Rule #1 of this forum and of life around men in general is never insult a man's family (wife and kids). I know the caliber of the man, Jorge, and I can guarantee you that if you were dumb enough to do that in front of him, you find yourself rightfully knocked the [bleep] out. If you insulted his wife in front of a few of us here, you'd get the same.

Figure, too, that Bath, PA ain't far from some, and school district office pogues are easy to track.

A suggestion would be, if'n you're smart enough to heed such, to crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under, go back to daydreaming about leopards you haven't hunted, looking up the skirts of schoolgirls you can't have..... And GTFO of here.

BTW - your claim of a Purple Heart don't carry much weight. John Kerry claims two, and that still don't raise the character of the man. Like him, you have exhibited no such character worth consideration.

You're simply a poster child for a complete waste of decent air, and exhibit for justfiable retro-active birth control.

Jorge is a better man than I. Every time I see this cowardly, lying POS pop up under another name I just put him on ignore like I have with his current 2th Doc identity on Accurate Reloading.

Jorge runs this POS to the ground and kicks the crap out of him each time. I can just picture that sniveling coward sitting in his janitor's closet thinking up new names and how he is going to get Jorge the next time!!

Give 'em hell Jorge!!

Hook: You pegged him over there as well. His MO is always the same. When he gets dimed out, he tries a PM first. Guess you know all the names over on AR. He had at least four here. I tried the ignore angle, but when he brought my wife into it (and continues to do so) I'll just keep on him. It's fun dueling wits with an empty brain pan. He can't even add up his hunts to lie correctly! lol. jorge

A question/statement for jorgeI or anyone here, really.

First let me say I've never been to Africa, although as a kid reading EK I dreamed of going, so I haven't shot anything there with any type of action. I am a life long Lever lover having been started out with a Marlin 32/20 that was my grandfather's and given to me by my Uncle a very long time ago. I have no desire to argue with any here but I notice that with all of this pissing contest going on one very important fact seems to be overlooked. Africa was colonized by the Europeans. A person usually uses what they are comfortable with. Europeans introduced bolts and doubles into Africa long before we ever thought of going there to hunt. Now having said that I was taught in the Navy that "When in Rome do as the Romans." so I would think that asking a PH why he wouldn't use a lever would be a "NO-Brainer". They've never used them and what they do use works for them so why change? As for what we Americans use and why we use whatever, they more than likely shake their head or roll their eyes. Revolvers, Bows/Arrows, and Levers - all stunts in their eyes.

I mean, come on guys, who cares really? Surely not the Animal who ends up dead. What matters the launch pad if the 500 grainer is doing 2100fps starting out and there are lever cart. that can do that. The American way is to be Politically Incorrect not the other way around, right?

Its funny really if one of them came over here a hunted with a double or a drilling most of us would be asking to shoot it.

Ok I've had my say, I'll hunker down and wait for the incoming, have at it.

Ga;

Actually, I think you pegged it nicely.

"What matters the launch pad if the 500 grainer is doing 2100fps starting out and there are lever cart. that can do that."

A couple of things, talking buff or elephant. Talking solid bullets, the bullet needs a secional density of about .300 or greater, maybe a bit less if its a mono and/or has a flat nose, and it needs to hold its shape well and at least not expand much at all or break up. Talking softs, it needs to be close to .300 SD, a bit less if a mono, and it needs to hold together - no softs on elephants and not really nessecary on buff either.

If you have a lever gun that shoots a SD ~.300+ 500gr lead core steel jacketed solid (or other solid that will hold shape and keep integrity) or a ~.270+ copper or brass flat nose mono solid at 2100fps you have a DG rifle.

Please let me know which cartridge is availble in which lever gun that meets these requirements.

Light for calibre bullets do not cut it.

JPK

GA: The PHs really don't care, it's your safari and short of legal caliber mins, which really doesn't matter anyway, anything is game. Teddy Roosevelt used a lever no problems and if I had the funding to go every year, I would LOVE to take an 1895 in 405 for example. I've only been there twice on my own but I do read a lot and have spoken with scores of PHs & experienced clients and no one really has any issues. Where the fur starts to fly is when comparisons are made where a lever "is just as good as a CRF bolt or a double for dangerous game" where clearly it is not the case from a reliability issue and stopping power perspective. Regarding the numbers you quoted, I've never seen a lever launch a 45 cal 500gr bullet at 2100 fps.

Further, I've personally changed my views somewhat. When my next buffalo hunt comes, I plan to take my 45-110 Sharps rifle and I am confident it will work. Is my bolt action 416 Rigby a better choice? Absolutely I think so, and where I a PH backing up clients I'd never use a single shot or a lever for that matter, but as a client, why not? I'm FAR from being an expert, but in my limited personal experience and what other much more experienced than I have said, that's how I see it. jorge

Ga-The Savage 99 is a lever gun that was actually designed and submitted to the US Gov't for testing to become the Army's main battle rifle. The Army chose the Krag instead, but the 99 is an example of a stout and reliable action that I have used in Africa. Sadly, it can not accommodate any cartridge that is adequate or wise to use on DG when things get hairy. Sure, a 250 grain TSX from a .358 placed in the shoulder of an undisturbed buff will kill him with little fanfare, but one doesn't always have the luxury of such a shot.

Buff hunting can be as unremarkable as picking a bull out of a herd and whacking him in the shoulder from 75 yards, and watching him limp around for a moment before keeling over dead. In that case, I am positive that a 265 grain Barnes mono solid with a flat nose from a Marlin .444 will do the job. Likewise, a 265 grain softpoint from the same rifle will do rude things to cats big and small. I would gladly shoot a big maned lion over a kill from a hide with that rig.

There are times when things aren't so easy. What if you are out tracking the bachelor bulls through the thick scrub that they invariably seek to sleep in the heat of the day. The brush can be scattered or dense, and 4-10 feet tall. I have tracked to within 8 steps of a sleeping bull and never saw him until the trackers pointed him out. The body looked like a rock in the bush. With the body partially obscured, you have to maneuver for a shot, and sometimes the buff will rise up to face you before deciding to charge or run.

This is the circumstance when the .358, .444, 45-70 are just not a wise to have at hand. When I crawl through the thick stuff, I have my .450/400 Jeffrey's double in my hand, not the trackers.

Most of the DG arguments boil down to killing vs. stopping cape buffalo. I've dropped a wounded running buff with a .338, but that's not a blanket endorsement of the .338 for cape buffalo.

Personally, I'd like to see Jorge zap a buff with his 45-110 smokepole. I think it would do the job nicely. However, should the buff take objection to blackpowder and hard cast lead alloy, I'd prefer to have my Jeffrey's around for protection.

Hey Jeff, when I was up there I forgot to ask you to show the that double! rats! Nice post BTW and in my view (based on only a two safari experience lest I get accused of overstating my experience) 100% spot on. jorge

Just an idea or two

http://www.levergun.com/Marlin/index.html

http://www.levergun.com/KodiakExpress.htm

Either the Marlin firing the 510 KE or a .416/.458 based on that round. Or the 50/110
loaded to the proper levels with the bullet of choice worked up in a 1886. Or .416/.458
variations of that round. Any of which will meet the requirements you require.

Of course you will reply why go to that expense and trouble when you can buy a bolt gun
off the shelf, so to speak, for much less that is proven already. If I've read and believe
that which I've read about DG stoppers they MUST be 110% relable so you will incur some
added expense, true?

My answer to that would be because I want to, so why not?

To hatari

I can see why you would use your 450/400 Jeffery; you trust it and are comfortable with it in that situation. On the other hand you are shooting a 400 gr. bullet at 2150 FPS are you not? I would think a .416 400 gr. bullet would be its equal and if the launch pad was a Lever in which I have as much confidence in as you do your double I surely wouldn't feel under gunned. Though I feel you might think so.

Although we may differ thanks for listening. BTY I truly love doubles, Too! They have a feel and grace that can not be matched!

That's just what I want in my hands when/if things go bad. The Jeffrey's has a long and admirable track record, but I'm not opposed to anything that is apples vs. apples in yours.

Sorry was out doing somethings in the outdoors such as casting slate drakes to rainbows and working on the camp's grounds, etc. some of you should try that once in awhile rather than sitting in front of your laptops all day.
Let's see as I recall George and I were sniping at eachother over his lack of hans on expertise while posting as though he is steeped in it...I'll give hime this much he has gleaned alot of 'net facts on the subject.
Oh yes I'd like someone to quote me as to where I took a shot at George's wife on this thread....I did make a comment or two about ugly women in general but nothing was pointed at his wife....
BTW I landed an released 4 rainbows over 6# in Pine Creek in the last few days the water is still cold enough to keep them active. Must drive home as I leave for Na. soon...when are you going on safari this year George??????

Originally posted by MocassinJoe1 on 07/11/07 post 1533705:

"I've also seen some pictures of you and by them I'd say you're one of the bravest men in the world...riding that skank must take some doing!"

The link to your actual post is below liar.
Your latest one was deleted by the moderator on the Troll hunting thread, but just to refresh your psychotic memory, post # 1533705 07/11/07 02:37pm:
skank

To those of you following this waste of skin of a human being, that whole thread will reinforce what you already know about this moron and on that same thread, post #1533821 07/11/07 0:322 there's a picture of him there. He's the one on the far right. Any more lies you want me to expose you on? jorge

was that in this thread????? or are you dreading up old stuff once again to skew a current thread?????????????????????
Also the recent troll thread had no reference to george's wife but a general comment about ugly women marring desperate men.

TALK ABOUT TROLLING ....JORGE HAS IT DOWN PAT...
anyway I have grass to cut just stopped by for a few posts like a burr under your blanket

I thought you were leaving your "country home" to pack for Namibia? grass to cut? My how Patrician of you...jorge

Lessee here. First MJ1 challenges anyone to provide direct link to him taking a low shot at Jorge's wife. Said link is provided and then MJ1 goes off with the old route of backtracking on his statement. Well jackoff, your cred is worse than that of a demorat state senator in New York. Ain't much that is lower than one of them. You made the grade.

The folks of Bath, PA must be really proud to have such a lowlife POS "educating" their children.

So, MJ1, tell us about that leopard you didn't shoot......