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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,858 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
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Let me guess - elk and wolves were holding hands and singing Kumbaya.................
I guess I'll have to read it.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,969 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,969 Likes: 10 |
RedRabbit: Interesting hypothesis. Need to see if it proves out in other regions.
1Minute
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,858 Likes: 1
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Interesting theories.
And seemingly much greater compound impact than simple depredation by predators. 16,000 to 6,000 elk is a hell of a decline.
A couple of related "findings" that bother me a bit:
1. There are more wolves than estimated/projected, 2. The presence of wolves in combinaton with depredation is far worse than mortality solely due to depredation.
How do you correct for that? And why do we continue to try to "adjust" nature?
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 213
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 213 |
Not sure about the wolf/elk relationship, but I would suspect it is similar to the wolf/deer/moose issues around Algonquin Park in Central Ontario. After years of studies the general conclusion is that the low recruitment rate is due to the wolves and bears preying heavily on the newborn to 90 day old fawns and calves. It's not so much pressure on the adults that cuts the population, is the killing of up to 95% of the young of the year in the first few months of their lives.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,349 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,349 Likes: 1 |
Ponder this:
How much meat would it take to feed 6-8 150 lb dogs and their puppies for one year?
If you turn loose a pack of wolves in the wild, any moron with even a thread of common sense could figure out that deer, moose and elk populations are going to have to supply that meat.
Oh yea...I forgot they only kill the old and sick.
The old timers had this figured out 100 years ago. But I guess we are a lot smarter now
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" ~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,077 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,077 Likes: 10 |
Bwinters: Try this article on for size (regarding numbers of Elk reduced by the over-abundance of Wolves!). Link: http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2005/01/12/news/01elknumbersrise.txtIf the link does not work the gist of this article is the Elk went from over 19,000 in this area to 8,335 several years after the Wolves became over-populated thereabouts! Thats a decline of about 11,000 Elk!!! The article also quantifies the amazing amount of lost human Hunting opportunities. Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 543
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 543 |
I hear on the radio, low birth rate due to lack of nutrition.. For some reason the elk are not eating properly.. I wonder if you could eat while you are running for your life...
Those dumb ashes....
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 183
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 183 |
Any stockman that has wolves around knows this without a study by biologists cows exhibit the same problems the only good news from the article is they acknowledge theres a problem, now how to fix it, they'll probably say they need to give all the cows progesterone shots or anything but what really needs to be done. danny
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,324 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,324 Likes: 9 |
Interesting and good article--but I'm not sure their conclusions are anything new--they were teaching us the same theory 10 years ago when I went back to college about the effects of predation on prey birth rates. The article/researchers neglects to note what a "normal" birth rate in Yellowstone elk is to begin with. An exceptionally high birth rate in the absence of significant predation wouldn't be normal to begin with, so one has to look at the baseline/control data with a "critical eye". I also question if a possibly higher quality of feed for the elk in Yellowstone, because of the presence of wolves, may offset lower calf production by increasing calf survival in their first year of life. I always go back to Banff National Park, where the elk population deals with a full suite of large predators, had very little sport hunting harvest (protected by the park and ex-urban development), has a lower birth rate then most elk populations in the lower 48, had individual elk that appeared to live to a older age than their counterparts in the lower 48 (which the above study seems to suggest will also happen in Yellowstone) had significantly higher bull to cow ratios, and had a much higher proportion of older bulls in the population. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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