Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Toby Bridges latest blog

Better yet, you have all the know how knowledge. You should be spending your time on here, telling people how to get in contact with the people who make our muzzleloading rules in our states and how we should go about expressing our feelings and concerns to the right persons.

Oh, I dunno, a couple of us are on the high side of 50 and do ok with open sights. I need glasses beyond about 3 feet and the reading glass prescription gets a little stronger every year. I shoot open sight cartridge rifles at 100 yards for fun and wouldn't have a problem taking a deer at 200. For ML I use a wide aperture peep and fiber optic front sight and don't have trouble being minute-of-deer at 100 yards. Others of us use a plain notched rear sight. We try to get deer within 50 yards, that's part of the fun, like shooting over deeks rather than pass shooting. But we practice, you can't shoot scoped all year and expect to be any good with iron sights.

Scopes make it easy but aren't really necessary unless you're pretty bad off. Then a waiver seems reasonable. Again, modern ML gear is a matter of taste as far as I'm concerned and it's all fine with me so long as it doesn't screw it up for the rest of us. I do dislike federal interference in what has historically been a states' issue but it seems to be the way the country is going in all areas.

BigBlock...

Put y'ur glasses back on...and you'll see the quitter remark was f'ur smokepole...he's the one who was crying about how decrepit and broken down he was, couldn't walk or pull a bow anymore, and was about ready to throw in the towel.

I am fighting for scopes in all states...along with the hunter's right of choice when it comes to muzzleloader hunting projectiles, primer ignition, enclosed ignition systems...and even though I don't like compressed pellet charges, I even fight for the right to use them for those who do like them. Heck, I hate the idea of an electronic ignition anything...but if it loads from the muzzle, it's a muzzle loader.

I also introduced my Dad to muzzleloading...when he was in his late 50s...back when I was 37 or 38, and working for Dixie Gun Works. No one is ever too old to learn something new...but they have to be given a chance to enjoy it. If one simply cannot see open sights (and the target) well enough simultaneously to use open sights, shooting and hunting with a muzzleloader is no fun...and only contributes to a high rate of wound loss.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Gotta ask, "why"?

Other than the fact that you reap some fairly significant financial rewards related to the use of said products.

Which, if that's the true answer, I'm fine with that. Just be honest about it.

Objection, relevance.

Who cares why, what difference does it make. It is what it is, regardless.

If that doesn't work, I'll try, "More prejudicial than probative."

No disagreement, counselor, but at last check, this court had a far lower bar of evidentiary standards, and the rules of procedure did not require 8 course hours worth of mind bending to attempt to comprehend.

Just keepin ya honest, you're too good to need to throw dust in the air.

Fun though, isn't it?

You're such an [bleep]. And I mean that, sincerely.

I said nothing of the kind, as far as "throwing in the towel" or "crying about how decrepit" I am. What I said was (you can go back and read it again if you need to) it won't be too long before my arthritis prevents me from walking in to the places I like to hunt, and when that happens, I won't be asking for special privileges to compensate for my physical condition, special privileges like the ones you advocate.

Just to set the record straight, there ain't no throwing in the towel or crying going on here. Although it's a fact that I have severe osteoarthritis in my ankle (doctor's words) I can live with the pain, and I've learned to get around it. I've backpack hunted for elk (successfully, with a muzzleloader, no scope) the last five years, and the last two I cleaned and packed out the animal by myself, between three and four miles one way, on my back. I work hard to stay in shape year-round so I can do this. So know who you're talking to before you go spouting off at the mouth about throwing in the towel and crying.

So you backpack for trout fishing? Wow, you da' man. I'm taking my 18 year-old son to a lake above timberline this weekend, it's a rough hike off the trail and loaded with cutthroats up to 18". I guess that makes me special too.

If you look at it objectively, you're the one doing the crying about being old and decrepit (poor eyesight), and you're the one whining about needing special privileges to get around physical infirmities. What I said is, when I can't see the sights any more, I'll man up and accept my physical infirmities. I won't ask my state to change the rules just for me, I'll use a scope, because that's legal in my state, I'll just have to hunt a month later with the majority of other hunters in my state.

Come to think of it, what do you have to say about the fact that no one who needs to use a scope to hunt in Colorado is prevented from doing so? What's your response to that? I'll wait on that one a while, I'm sure.

I see the problem here. You are focused on the "rights" of older hunters such as yourself, and you're spending your time and energy filing lawsuits against our state game management agencies, the ones with limited budgets to manage our resources. Great job.

And you do this under the guise of "protecting" our sport when in reality, "older hunters" (although I love 'em) when you use them to fight your battles like this are just another special interest group.

I've got news for you, like it or not, regardless of the percentage of hunters in the "older" bracket, older hunters are hunting's past. If you really want to do something to advance or protect our sport, you should concentrate on its future, not its past, and do something to protect its future.

You want to tell me I'm throwing in the towel and you know not one thing about what I do to protect or advance our sport. Yet you want to beat your chest about filing lawsuits so that older guys can use scopes in the special early seasons, when they can already use 'em in the general firearms season. Yup, a regular Teddy Roosevelt you are.

The way I see it, the problems confronting our sport are not what kinds of equipment that older guys can use, so that's not where I focus my energy. The way I see it, the main problems we all need to work on are:

1) Low recruitment of young hunters, and
2) Loss of habitat and places to hunt.

So that's where I focus my efforts. I'm a volunteer for RMEF, and a lifetime member ($1,500 one-time contribution). I've volunteered my time and helped with fundraising banquets and habitat conservation projects. I'm also a member of Trout Unlimited. And I've volunteered with organizations that build and maintain trails in the backcountry. That's what I do for problem number 2.

For problem number 1, I have three sons and I take them and their friends hunting, fishing, and shooting every chance I get. My youngest has a ranching for wildlife cow tag this year so we're gonna get him his first elk, (hopefully). I also volunteer my time and teach the Hunter Education course that's required of all young hunters here in Colorado. Four nights each month throughout the summer. We have a surprising number of women in the classes too. I've just gotten started but I figure I've helped around 150 new hunters in Colorado get their cards.

That's where I put my time and efforts. File your lawsuits if that's what floats your boat; personally, I think it's like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Or for all the good it does our sport, teats on a boar.

+1 Smokepole. Well said.

I've hunted since 1976 with hammers and inlines, 0X scopes, Variable power scopes, peeps, and buckhorn sights, #11's, 209's, powder and pellets, sabots, conicals, and RB. They all have their place.

Ethics is in the hunter, not a part of the equipment. Let the state's determine what's appropriate for their states.

As for getting old, I used to be able to shoot open sights pretty good, but since I had lazik surgery the sights aren't quite the same...Did I give up on open sights...No, I just cut back the range at which I'll take a shot. My enjoyment is the same.

Guy s. guys , now come on , lets step back here and take a breath . Doing so will make you all see your being baited . What you say will just end up taken out of context , printed on his blog or printed somewhere on the net to support tobys view .

I to believe that when a person get older and encounters medical issues , they should have an option .
BUT what toby here is about isn�t older folks with medicinal conditions its about letting all people use scopes and such . Again I have no problem with someone who is visually impaired using a scope .
This is why I support the waver system . if you need it , , show you need it and then use it . I also believe that if you do get such a waver , then that also should be recorded with the DMV.
As to ATV�s ?? LMAO I own one and personally I think they should be banned from the roads during hunting season . basicly people to often abuse the privilege � not all but a lot of folks do � .
As to the horse being the first ATV ahhhhh ok��.
but even horses are regulated today in that if your going to use the to hunt , you must be feeding them weed free hay ,.

2 years back the IFG poll showed that people were for reducing technologies in muzzleloading . In fact when the IFG polled resident hunters on the side lock issue . The majority of those who took the time said yes to the side lock rule as it was proposed and clearly states TRADITIONAL MUZZLOADER HUNTS .
The vote of those poled was 48% for the change and only 41% against it .
When residents were ask if the IDFG should restrict muzzleloader season to TRADITIONAL ONLY
The vote came in 48% in favor and 44% against
When it came to projectiles and the issue of keeping sabots out , the pull was again 46% yes and 41% no
Now you can check those numbers by requesting that information from IDFG under their 2006 poling and 2007 biological big game rules recommendations released on January 11 2006 by Brad Compton big game manager region 3 at the public meeting .

during that same time toby tried to push the scope issue as a form of discrimination concerning age and the disabled .
I even read where he suggested that states who did not alow scopes im muzzleloading should have federal funding pulled by the BoI . Well that didn�t pan out so well did it toby

Folks what it boils down to is what brings you to a state to hunt is basically because you like the way it is . Realize that , respect it . Or simply hunt in a state that allows you to use what ever you want .

But lets go past all that .
See what toby doesn�t tell you is that the more these rules are laxed , the less reason there is for even having the season . Because just like here . center fire hunters begin asking WHY are there special hunts to begin with . Why are they kept out . It only takes a few years an the rules get broken down to the point that like in some states there is no muzzleloading hunts , its BP hunts that encompass not only muzzleloading but cartridges as well .

Some of you may not know this but Toby wrote a lot of articles on traditional muzzleloading . Folks should go back and read those writings there is some real good information in there . though IMO he does seem to go out of his way trying to debunk much of it anymore

.as I said some of us have been around long enough to see the ides and flow of the tides .

Toby ?? 9 miles to climb 2500 feet LMAO my driveway climbs faster then that now who are you trying to fool that�s a gradual incline

don�t know how you were brought up but in my family , along with age came wisdom .
So as one gets older , they hunt different . I don�t climb the salmon river canyons like I used to .
I don�t hop the rocks crossing the rivers like I once did . I also don�t hunt the same areas I once did when I was 19 eather .
Why because I know that ill kill myself if I do .

Now im not saying I don�t go to those areas . But I know that while im there , if I cant see to shoot . Ethically , then its to far it saves me from doing something stupid .
What are those words to that Toby Keith song ??
My body says ohhhh nooo you cant , but my brain says ohh yess I can .

Ill hunt tell the day I die . In fact I hope and pray that my last breath is taken high up on some mountain., under some big pine .
But I will never reduce myself to the point that killing means so much to me that I have to have some telescope or magic bullet on or in my muzzleloader .
To me anyway hunting means more then that . The older I grow the more hunting means to me and the less killing maters
Now maybe that�s just me ???? I can accept that . But I sure seem to talk to a lot of folks in the field who feel the same way ..

als well said smoke pole . kinda makes one wonder why it is that with all the scopes and high volocity bullets , the general season has such a wound loss

Amen to that. What you left out is that the wisdom acquired with age (plus moving a little slower?) no doubt allows you to get close enough most years to fill the freezer, scope or no scope.

Age has its advantages.

Thanks for the kind words Don. Have you tried a good set of fiber optics (are they allowed in NC?) They're legal out here and they made a big difference for me. The dots glow brightly enough that I believe they go a long ways toward eliminating the whole issue of having to see and line up rear sight, front sight, and the target. They just seem to naturally line up, at least for me.

There's a reason why scopes are legal in 38 states...hunters want them.

The Wisconsin DNR fought that fact for years, and this spring the sportsmen in that state attended meetings in all counties to vote on the subject and in nearly 85-percent of the counties voted to legalize scopes during muzzleloader season.

The majority of hunters want the same in Colorado, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, California, and Alaska. The trouble is, traditional muzzleloader hunters have pumped so much b.s. information about hunters taking longer shots at game into the very muzzleloader illiterate wildlife agencies in these states that these so-called professionals believe it. They're not muzzleloader performance knowledgeable enough to know any different.

Perhaps ALL muzzleloading hunters need to be required to take an eye and shooting exam to qualify for using open sights...you know, kind of like required to get a drivers' license. And if their eyesight is found deficient for the proper use of open sights...they should be required to use a scope.

NO ONE WOULD WANT THAT!

But then, the majority of today's muzzlelaoding hunters in the states just listed are sick and tired of being required to use open sights that a large percentage cannot see well enough to use.

I can guarantee all of you, no matter what side of the fence you're on, this thing is going to get a heck of a lot more exciting than the next season of Survivor.

But, in the end, what's right (and legal) will prevail. And as in Nebraska and Kansas, where scopes were legal during muzzleloader season for the first time last year (2008), by the time the muzzleloader season comes to an end...no one will even remember this was an issue.

Smokepole...Captchee...when does the money begin to roll in? A few stuck in the muck hardheads like you keep claiming how rich I'm getting off all of this...but I sure heaven't seen any change in my bottom line.

The good thing is, for every muzzleloader owner I run into like you two...I hear from a dozen or more who are just darn happy that someone is fighting for their right to use the frontloader, load and sight of their choice. And, that is what keeps me going...and why you are fighting a losing battle.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

So, in other words, you know better what ought to work in every state, than any state agency, state organization of hunters, the guys that wrote and rewrite the rules...................

And you do it all out of the goodness of your heart?

You get no endorsements from T/C? From Harvester Muzzleloading? From Leatherwood/Hi-Lux Optics? From Western Powders/Blackhorn 209? From Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co.? You know, all those companies that are listed as having "brought to us" your site? No compensation from them, at all, huh?

Yeah, now, about that bridge TLEE has for sale again..............................

If you are doing this to further your own agenda and your own career and thus financial gain, then so be it. Just be truthful about it. And, so far, you're failing miserably on that, or at least it don't ring true worth a damn.

Oh, and BTW - there's a T/C System 1 SS/walnut carbine inline, 209 primed, and BH209 loaded, that'll go afield this year; wearing a 6x Nikon.

And, there's a musket capped T/C Renegade, .54, iron-sighted, that'll do likewise.

The flinter is in the works.

Use what works, use what you want, use what's legal, but at least be honest about what you're doing and why.

I ain't got a dog in the fight, but can see clearly that some do, and some don't, as well as who is and who ain't coming clean as to where their dogs lie.

So are you trying to say that the 90% of those who use inline rifles are being held up by the tiny amount of people shooting traditional muzzleloaders? I highly doubt that tiny % of traditional shooters is keeping scopes off muzzleloaders.

Whats your take on states having antler Point restrictions on deer?

To whom is this posed?

I have FO on a Marlin and they work pretty good. I alternate between a Lyman Great Plains Percusssion .50 and a older T/C SS FireHawk Thumbhole inline with a 3x9 Nikon on top. The Lyman just wouldn't look right with a Fiber Optic sight and I pretty much limit myself to 50 yards with those patched RB anyway.

Its to Toby.