Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Toby Bridges latest blog

Toby;

Feel free to address the totality of the points made, and try not to cherry pick the parts that you can't support.

Care to find something to support your opinion on "hunters can't see the iron sights", that will actually carry some weight, Toby?

Have at this one, too, Toby.

Yeah I heard the same. Hope they push it through this year. I'm getting tired of my muzzle loader, and want to carry my Ruger 45.70 during the rut.

BTW - Mr. Bridges, if this is how you represent the sport and your agenda to other hunters, God help us if it's anywhere close to this when you're in front of Dept. of Fish & Game officials and the general public.

I understand (though you won't admit it) that you have a financial stake in your positions and your agenda, and that's fine, but you may want to find ways to assert your position and agenda with verifiable facts (i.e. not what you "think", but what can be proved without bias), and without being a jackazz in the attempt.

Thank you, for supporting a whole lot of my points, RIGHT there.

VAnimrod...it's folks like you who do their best to keep participation in muzzleloading from growing.

Again, what have you done to promote and improve muzzleloader hunting opportunities?

Fortunately, there are lots of great folk out there who see through your rude, crude, obnoxious and arrogant crap. Like I said earlier, get off your lazy rearend and do some research...you might even start by checking with the professional optometry organizations...and confer with an optimetirst about how the aging eye works (or no longer works with speed and precision)...or you might even contact those in the optics industry.

If you're going to fight something, go fight to keep the muzzleloader seasons muzzleloader seasons. Several states have already opened what was a muzzleloader season to become a "Primitive Arms Season"...which no longer means "Traditional Muzzleloading"...but rather to include black powder cartridge rifles and muzzleloaders.

But, I guess you would rather bitch and moan about it rather than actually get out and do something...like lobbying. I can tell that's far more work than you're willing to give anything.

Hey, what do you do for a living? Do you do it for free?

Thought not. But it must not be anything that entails any kind of real work, requiring any real effort.

I take it from your user name "VAnimrod" that you are an amatuer from Virginia. If so, check with Bob Duncan (your wildlife agency's director) at the Virginia Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries...and inquire about who came back to Virginia in the early 1990s to help get the muzzleloader season there on track...to get in-line rifles legalized, saboted bullets legalized, and scopes legalized.

I can tell you one thing...it sure wasn't some lame whiner by the name of "VAnimrod".


Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Stop being lazy huh?

Okay,
All of you lazy guys shooting todays modern, easy cleaning inline rifle shooting that powder that allows you to shoot 30-50 shots without ever swabbing, dont have to worry about cleaning at the end of the day, need to stop using them because you're lazy.

Also, you need to take your scope off and learn how to stalk your game rather than taking easy 200-250 yard scoped inline shots at game in the field. Stop being Lazy and learn to stalk closer.

Thats how i took the "lazy" response from you Toby

Pretty lame BigBib.

Is that all you got?

I guess you consider yourself the Nannybumpo of the Colorado mountains.

I'll bet my tradtional muzzleloaders will out shoot your traditional muzzleloaders. I hve several of them that are fully capable of taking game at 200 - 250 yards...and everything about them is 1840-1860 period correct.

Toby Bridges

Well my most accurate traditional rifle right now is an el cheapo cva plainsman flinter. Along with a traditions kentucky flintlock.

Until I see data to indicate otherwise, I will believe that allowing pellets, sabots, and scopes will result in a DECREASE in the number of tags issued for most western states.

Suppostition: No facts to back this up, but I will bet you the farm that allowing these additions to the Colorado Muzzleloader season will result in an INCREASE hunter success. That means more elk hit the ground and are not around for the later seasons.

Supposition: If that happens, they will REDUCE the number of muzzleloading tags issued. Again, I will bet you the farm on this one too.

Wouldn't that mean by allowing scopes, etc. you would be DECREASING muzzleloader opportunity and reducing the number of hunters.

So, if this actually comes to pass, you may increase the chance of success for those getting the tags, but fewer people will have that chance.

Well...just how the hell do you think that happened???? Twernt too long ago you were pushing smokeless front stuffers (duplexed loads and all...)approximating 2400-2600fps at the muzzle with variable powered scopes, seems to me you started down the slippery slope and now you bitch about black powder metallic cartridge guns??? What maybe 1400-1800fps at the muzzle? Huh???? Your logic is convoluted and flawed.
Please stay outta OR with any future "lobbying" (ADA suits,etc. ad naseuam).



Charlie

Let's see........ what've I done...............

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

4-H camp rifle and muzzleloading instructor and assistant instructor for 6 years. Done yeoman's work on hunter's safety courses for over 10. Volunteered to take several friend's kids hunting............ taught at least two dozen friends and friends of friends to shoot................

Yada, yada, yada.

I gotta ask: why do you go on the attack when all you're asked is to provide some support for your position? I've listed my positions, and asked that you do the same. You can't/won't. Why?

And, actually, VAnimrod = "hunter from VA", if you go with the classical/Biblical sense. Go figure that'd escape you. Then again, as hunter's, we're all amateurs at this stage. Go figure you're gonna consider that an insult.

As someone who alleges to "speak for us", as you do, I would hope you have better manners than you do when you "speak to us".

BTW - I know Mr. Duncan. He's done some serious work with the areas I hunt, and I respect him greatly. I suspect his attitude toward many things, as usual, will be respectable, measured, and professional. Something I suspect you might be able to take lessons on, given your performance here. As for "getting it on track", it was on track prior to the early 1990s, what needed to catch up was the deer herd, and some serious QDM work did that. I know; I was involved in that. BT/DT. Yes, the ML rules relaxed, but that had FAR more to do with the deer population than anything else. BT/DT, too.

And, Toby, you still haven't addressed any points as presented before. Especially your aversion to a simple admission that you are a paid representative for said companies; and there's no shame in that, save that such as you bring to yourself by refusing to at least admit to what you do for a living.

I can't figure your response, given your position, your agenda, and your profession. Perhaps you can explain that well, though, given your history here, I am tending to doubt that.

so i read this and i had to do some checking so i placed a call to our region commissioner .
he wasn�t home so i left a message asking if the commission had any contact with the BoI concerning the scope issue and toby 's complaint from 2006 .
He just got back to me . With a yes .
So I ask what this contact meant, could the BoI force this issue .
The reply was well they could but wont .
See any complaint has to be followed up on . In this case the complaint was addressed .
It was felt that while the state had gave wavers to to disabled hunters , it wasn�t formally know . So the state adress that issue by formally addressing it .
What was ask by the BoI was if the state had provisions for disabled hunters .
Which the state now has as part of its disability laws .
This however does not mean that a person can simply claim to be disabled and then take it upon themselves to change the rules .
He also reminded me that the game commission is not a law making body . It only has the ability to make law for 1 year . At which time that law has to be approved by congress . If its not approved then the law is not carried into accepted law .
The Idaho congress has set disability laws and any short comings in those laws are handed down through congress to the game commission for implementation.
As such no previsions have been set for allowing scopes in muzzleloading , to anyone other then those who are legally classified as disabled under Idaho law .

This is a copy of the report concerning this





now toby wants you all to believe that ist a simple mater of if the BoI says its so , then it is so . that�s not the case . the BOI can sue for none compliance but a court decides the issue if the state sues back which it will .
Also know that there is a difference between documented disability and preserved disability
Notice that the USFWS sated documented,,,,,,, and ,,,,,,special permits. .
So in there is the rub . TB here would have you think that documented means a documented average . Not an actual documented disability found to an individual person thus defining them as disabled and thus qualified for said special permits.

now again if you want me to back this up , i can provide any who asks a derect link to the record of this report which is part of the public freedom of information act thus avalable through the idaho fish and game . i will geroooonteeee 100% that what i just qouted above is a cut and past of that report .
but if you insist i will gladly post the link .

So once again he gives you a half truth and only what he thinks supports his oppenion .

As to the rest of his post . LMAO I guess he himself has never set in a commission meeting and listened to public comment . If he had he would realize that the room is not full of traditionalists . In fact its full of all hunters and fisherman . As such normally you have center fire and archery folks commenting on muzzleloading . You also have muzzleloading folks commenting on archery and center fire seasons . Everyone comments and everyone has concerns . There simply is no way that ANY traditional organization alone can sway the complete room .
Nthen you add in the box of comments and letters on any given subject .
So just like on this forum , you have folks from all disciplines commenting . Just because you might enjoy modern muzzleloading doesn�t mean you support all that toby here wants modern muzzleloading to be . The same is also true for those who claim to be traditionalists .
Just as with modern muzzleloading , there is many different levels and degrees of traditional muzzleloading . To assume that they all agree with each other is not only IMO fool hart but it shows a very big lack of understanding of both groups .
While we are talking about muzzleloading here . Remember those very same degrees follow in all the hunting disciplines

Lets see what have I done to further muzzleloading in this state ?? Well off the top of my head

In the mid 1970 I petitioned the commission for hunts not just in north Idaho but thought southern Idaho and took part in the very first muzzleloading test hunt done in this state .
In the late 1980 I was among a small group of sportsman who researched the conical vs. Rb issue in this state and a couple years later amount the same group who petitioned for acceptance of modern inline ignitions
I take part in hunters ED here in Idaho and in fact tech the muzzleloading section for man instructors here in south western Idaho .
I also take part in the public lecture system and have instructed employees of businesses like Sportsman�s warehouse , cabalas as well I as the Idaho fish and game .
We also put on specific muzzleloading mentor hunts through our tribal Collisions .
I also regularly support , participate and put on many many shoots state wide ranging from traditional only , to open class , to BP cartridge both rifle and clay and just recently I have become involved in trying to bring back long distance muzzleloading shooting in the state
I am a member , director and one of the founders at a national level of the Traditional Muzzleloading Association .
I am also an active member of the Idaho Muzzleloading Association who compiles information and submits recommendations for possible muzzleloading hunts across this state , both traditional and modern until 2 years ago .
Just last year I was also active in fighting the lead banns and their effects on muzzleloading hunting in California reporting findings and gathered information back to the commission .

But that�s not all I do . I been in on the wolf recovery act , as well as the application of allowing wolf hunting in this state as a way fo controlling their numbers .
Im part of the sportsman�s coalition, mule deer initiative and invasive species .
Im also lend a hand on the salmon issues � my father was a salmon and steelhead biologist and conservation officer for the state of Idaho , 1950 -1982
I have been part of the habitat rehabilitation for the Stanley basin which I actualy became part of as a very young boy at age 6 . If you really want to get down to it . I have photos of me as a very young boy cleaning wears just below Decker as my father was on of the biologist fighting to save the sockeye in the late 1960�s

So you see for me its more then just some traditional vs. modern bla bla that you must continue for your own betterment .
For me its about the state . Its about hunting , its about continuing to be able to hunt freely , be it muzzleloading ,archery or center fire .
Its about holding some reasonable level of what we have .
My greatest fear has nothing to do with you toby or modern muzzleloading . It has to do with a time that�s fast approaching when the general public steps back and realizes that their perception of what muzzleloading is and what it has become are two different things . A day when we lose support for keeping the exemption under the FFA . The day when we here in the west face the same Malay of of hunter in the field all at the same time . With most feeling the need something bigger and better , capable of reaching farther then the person in a tree stand just a few feet away .
A day when game is no longer managed by folks who�s job it is to protect out wildlife as best they can . But because of un controllable want of a small few , like IMO yourself , the general public comes to the oppenion that management is better done by public opinion

TX hunter
that is just what happened here . management came right out and told us that as hunters if we did not accept some changes we would lose opportunity.
But some did not listen.
thus people like toby here keep their toe hold because they can continue the fight .
personally i don�t care . IMO the greatest opportunity even for muzzleloading is in the general any weapon hunt . Sure I try to get more hunts through my association with people in the fish and game .
But that doesn�t change the fact that if you want to hunt and hunt a lot , you wont apply for those hunts , you will saty in the open hunts and enjoy the archery ,open muzzleloading areas and general any weapons hunts .
But still of all those archery and general any weapon gives you 80% of the state to hunt in .
but it seems that even that is about to change as more and more people like toby here push for more and more alounces .

roomer has it that we are fast heading for eather a chose your weapons or a lotery system like oregon has .
so when the stae says , look fellas we need to cut back some things here , i dont ask why , i just say OK becouse if we dont , they sure are not going to be asking when they go to eather of the above

Absolutely none of this has happened in the states where muzzleloading regulations have allowed all the modern muzzle-loaded rifles...loads...and sight systems.

You all suffer from the Chicken Little syndrome. The sky is not falling...and modern technology is not killing our muzzleloader seasons.

Just the opposite. The more appealing muzzleloader seasons (and regulations) are to the average hunter...the more participation in...and the more muzzleloader hunting opportunities we enjoy.

Please, pull your heads out of your anal orifices and see the big picture.

Toby Bridges
NORTH AMERICAN
MUZZLELOADER HUNTING

Sorry VA, (no, I won't make fun of your handle, that would be juvenile) you'll have to get in line, he still hasn't answered my most basic question, you know, the one about the "right" to use a scope on a muzzleloader in Colorado:



I don't expect him to answer it, because he doesn't have an answer. But I'll keep posting the question, to show what a putz the guy is. And he'll keep fighting for and filing lawsuits for a "right" that we aleady have, and keep telling everyone here to pull their heads out of their asses. Ironic, ain't it?

BTW, keep asking him if he knows the definition of a "right;" he can't answer that one either.

Well then, what do you need a scope for?

Big Bib?? I've been here a while, and I've not seen anyone resort to juvenile crap like making fun of the handles people use. You're really a piece of..... work, aintcha?

That's been my experience here in Colorado too, nobody I've ever talked to has complained about not being able to use a scope, and that includes all the hunters that have come through our Hunter Education classes, many of which are experienced guys who've moved here from out of state.

And you know what, your data and my data are just as "scientific" and defensible as anything presented by wolfkill.

Which reminds me of why I always liked reading stuff by Ian McMurchy (rest his soul) as far as books and articles on muzzleloading. Ian always put hard data and results of real tests he ran into his books and articles. Check out "Modern Muzzleloading for Today's Whitetails" it's one of my favorites.

Real data and real test results, rather than a bunch of anecdotes and opinions supported by.....nothing. I've read all the contemporary writers on muzzleloading, and Ian was, hands down, the best for presenting facts and ideas based on verifiable data and test results.

Too bad others aren't more diligent, here and elsewhere. Anecdotes and opinions are just like......a**holes, everybody's got one.