The majority of hunters want the same in Colorado, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, California, and Alaska. The trouble is, traditional muzzleloader hunters have pumped so much b.s. information about hunters taking longer shots at game into the very muzzleloader illiterate wildlife agencies in these states that these so-called professionals believe it. They're not muzzleloader performance knowledgeable enough to know any different.
so lets see you stated a couple pages back that the reason i didnt like you was becouse im a traditionalist LMAO . and just who is injecting that thought again into this discussion . but ha keep right on going becouse IMO your showing folks here just why i hold you in such low regaurd . as i said in PM alittle above RW but not far above .
you know what my real oppenion is . YOU need the fight to continue between modern at traditional becouse with out that fight . your simply are just another dude on the block and have no real way to stay in the public eye .
again your statment above shows a complete lack of understanding of the states themselves and the the people of those states and just who does what .
do you realize how modern muzzleloading was accepted here in idaho ???
you didnt have a hand in that . you can think the traditional organzations for that . see you seem to forget traditionaist established the hunt to begin with and in 1991 potitioned the commission to accept modern rifles as a way to boost numbers and get more hunts . Now we have less oppratunity . the F&G told all of us that would be the case . but you didnt get it . so now we have what we have .
thank you Toby . im sure we all are better off .
do you know who got conicals aloud ?? again you can thank traditional organzations for that . in fact mentioning that you know how many modern groups i see at the commission meetings ?????? 0 ,, a few individuals .
do you know who is responcable for comiling information and potitioning for what hunts we have in this state ???? bet you dont .
maybe if folks would get organized and actualy do something with the department concerning getting hunts , we would have more . OHHH but im sorry those days are now gone . last year pretty much did an end to that .
They're not muzzleloader performance knowledgeable enough to know any different.
now i could be wrong but i believe that the current BG manager has 15 years of exsperiance with both weapons system.
i can also tell you that in the last 2 years there has been 4 courses given to the commission and members of the managemnet dept of this state . 2 specificly on modern muzzleloading and 2 on specificly traditional muzzleloading . but i bet you didnt knwo that eather .
now what i can tell you with all 100% certanty is that in the fall of 2006 when i was ask to adress the commission on muzzleloading for the spring of 2007 meetings , i gave each commissioner a 25 page packet on modern muzzleloading . i didnt state one word , you did . infact between you and RW you two gave them all the information needed . after all , who am i to insenuate such information or base of knowlage
i also included a short trip to your high proformance muzzleloading site .
the rather enjoyed the artical on the 300 yard bull and some of your write ups on projectiles .
i then had to laugh when the next meeting someone should up with that photo copy of a Rigby rifles and then proclaime it as proof of the long distance ability of traditional muzzleloading .
BUT someone forgot to tell them that the rifle they showed was also not legal in this state and never has been for hunting ,
ohh ya that was good
so as far as quality of information LMAO ohhh ya they got some of the best around .
Perhaps ALL muzzleloading hunters need to be required to take an eye and shooting exam to qualify for using open sights...you know, kind of like required to get a drivers' license. And if their eyesight is found deficient for the proper use of open sights...they should be required to use a scope.
WOW could you stretch that any further LMAO
again even at a fedrial level you fell short .
would you like to post that info our should i post it for you ?
But then, the majority of today's muzzlelaoding hunters in the states just listed are sick and tired of being required to use open sights that a large percentage cannot see well enough to use.
and just what qualifies you to make such a statment , lets see the numbers . you sure do use alot of words like most , all and majority . so far i havent seen anything to back it up
but again thats tipical , modern TB
you want me to post a copy of that Pole i mentioned above ? i can . ill have to scan it in but i should have time to do that tomarrow
I can guarantee all of you, no matter what side of the fence you're on, this thing is going to get a heck of a lot more exciting than the next season of Survivor.
of that there is no doubt . but as for here it doesnt mater . becouse the " I just want more time in the woods crowd " just shot themselves in the foot in a very large % of this state . the rest are draw only . so if you want to hunt muzzleloader , that week or so is your only time your going to get .and that small area is all your going to hunt .
next step is no season at all . but ha i guess you think you have more pull then the general centerfire hunters who are now asking WHY .
again , thank you Toby . YOU THE MAN!!!!!
im thinking BY BY muzzleloading seasons here in idaho maybe in the next 5 years but more like ten
Smokepole...Captchee...when does the money begin to roll in? A few stuck in the muck hardheads like you keep claiming how rich I'm getting off all of this...but I sure heaven't seen any change in my bottom line.
when ??? LMAO
now who are you playing again . not me .
in fact i dont have an issue with you making money of of muzzleloading . heck i make money of of muzzle loading .
but with you , it always seems like the product you support the most are the ones who pay you in someway .
as to the rest.
again
1) you stated idaho does not allow scopes and thus we discriminate "WRONG"
2) you now say that most hunters in Idaho want scopes for muzzleloading " based on poles " again "WRONG"
you throw words like MOST . A majority . Largest %.
By who�s polling do you get that OPPENION ?? By what state level information to you compile that information .
Please post the actual state documentation to support that please
The good thing is, for every muzzleloader owner I run into like you two...I hear from a dozen or more who are just darn happy that someone is fighting for their right to use the frontloader, load and sight of their choice. And, that is what keeps me going...and why you are fighting a losing battle.
oHH so now it you two is it . guess thats what i get for being civil to the likes of you .
yep i would agree its a lossing battle . but what you just dont get is that its muzzleloading in general . both traditional and modern .
tell me TB , where is Knight ? closed up . why ? where is white ?? closed up .
Savage??? . it would seems that their perant company seems to be thinking their muzzleloading section is a liability . but maybe you didnt read that memo . i posted it here on this board in a discussion about Knight . so how long will they hang on ???
TC?? sold out to S&W if that was good or bad , only time will tell .
CVA ????
tell me toby just how much does it now cost folks on this board to shoot ???
i remeber an artical that you wrote >> im thinking it was muzzleloader ?? 1979 ?? 80 there abouts where you recommended practice , practice practice .
tell me how much practice can these folks here do with projectiles that cost 20+ for a dozen ???
not to mention each time you recommend another powder , its higher in cost then the last
IMO the losing fight is muzzleloading in general and the cancer , well i think you know who IMO is the cancer of all that .
but ha ,again thats just me , so keep on talking
ill just keep working away at my year and a half back log of rifles .
smile , shake my head and say , ; what ever you think toby , you the man . right there boy , yep your a # 1 class A act
soooo anyway , im pretty much done here . i have had my say .
but i do have one question for you , while your here that i would like you to answer for me . its bugged me for some time .
on that savage that blew up on you .
why was it that you did not change out the breechplug when you notice the gas cutting to its face and forward shoulder ??????.
not pointing any fingers here or bliam .
i would just like to know