Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns kimber 1911 question for 'smiths

I wear a 1911 with shorts & a t-shirt.........the right holster makes all the difference in the world.

About the only attire that I can't wear a 1911 in is a swimsuit & w/o a shirt.

Granted, not everyone's physique will allow the use of good IWB holsters, though. (I'm 6'1" -215 lb.)

Just wondering how many & with what kind of rigs, you've tried, to know that 1911's don't conceal well?



What is it with them (or yours) that makes you make that statement?

Go to some kind of competitions & see about the reliability of 1911's..........there's usually a few there to check out.

Mine are all 100% reliable.........they all weren't necessarily that way out of the box, given the desire to shoot some specific ammo, but a little TLC here & there & presto, reliability with a capital R.

I've already said it but I'll say it again; 1911's are not for everyone, especially those already predisposed to the view that they are unreliable; lots of other great pistols/revolvers will fit them better.

The fact that 1911's were the U.S. Military sidearm for well over half a century speaks volumes.........soldiers won't usually put up with non-functional weapons for that long a period of time.

The Kimber SIS was named as such because the LAPD SIS dept. chose it as their official sidearm.......they could have chosen anything; they chose a 1911.

MM

Hi MM,

I have not tried any other rigs for concealment, statement is coming from numberous post I've seen this very forum stating that it is difficult to CCW during, say warm summer months in Florida or Arizona, etc. Hell, see poster complaining about compact handguns "printing" numerous times.

Yes, I understand a good holster can help tremendously but a full size 1911 is still a fairly large gun unless somehow the laws of physics don't apply to 1911s. What is nice about 1911 is that due to their single stack design they are alot less bulky than double stack configuration.

Yep, I've seen that 1911 are used in competition alot. The 1911 would make a fine competition and target gun. But my question is in CCW. Also you're taking what, a $1300-$2200 gun and sinking a few more hundred dollars into tuning it up for competion? To me, that sound more like an equipment race as much as anything. Which if that's what you like, that's great and nothing wrong with. I was hoping not having to invest tha much initial $$$ into a handgun for CCW and then a few more hundred $$$$ into making it reliable, which sound excatly what alot of people do.

The military use and civilian use are different. The military are usually not dependent on their handgun to be their main defense arm. Wheareas a civilian has to be concern more with concealability and that this IS the main arm of defense.

From my understanding, the military 1911s while still having the basic design was built to much loser tolerance to function under poor battle field conditions, but accuracy usually wasn't that great,plus using only ball ammunition, correct? Compare to todays 1911s are built to much tighter almost match grade tolerance and deliver very good accuracy but appear to have traded off some reliability issues? As to the LAPD, they are openly carried so can carry as large a pistol as they want, civilians usually aren't allow open carried. But that Kimber SIS does look nice. I'm surprise that LAPD offical decided to arm their force with such an expensive guns, usually politics forego going with cheap(er) handguns that balance to the lowest common denominator. So what the police is not necessarily and indication of what is "best" by any means.

I agree that since the military still use ball ammo, that they should not have switch from the 1911, but that had to do with politics not ballistics.

Thank you for keeping this conversation civil. Despite what you may believe, I really do like the 1911. I'm just not sure if its the right choice for me as a CCW---due to size, etc. I may eventually end up buying one if funds allow. But right now, what I have will have to do and I want to take a CCW course first before I do actually carry. So for right now, it is my range gun and house gun until I get adequate training to carry. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at IDPA too if there is something around my area.

The references re: competition, the military & LAPD SIS were all mentioned to illustrate reliability.

As I've already mentioned, 1911's are not for everyone under any circumstances; many can just never seem to master shooting them well.

When/if you get a carry permit, you'll have to work out what gun & system works best for you.

I carry a Glock 27 at least as much as a 1911, but it's concealability, as well as all other Glocks isn't really any different, maybe even more difficult, than a 1911.

When I carry the Glock it's for one reason: It weighs 20 oz empty and that's half the weight of a Govt. Model 1911 and 8 oz lighter than an alloy framed Commander.

If you carry it for 12 hours, it's the weight issue that gets you not the concealability issue.

At any rate your own personal preferences & experience will ultimately dictate your choices; experience takes a while to come by and requires trying a number of things.

Several posters here like VAnimrod, Kevin Gibson, magnumb, Mackay Sagebrush & T LEE , to name just a few, all have a wealth of experience in the area of concealed carry.........their posts are worth paying attention to when they come up.

MM

Leomart, I have owned and shot Colt 1911's in the Gold Cup and the model (custom built) 70 series, even competed many years ago with those pistols. Trust me they were very reliable!

I never carried one for personal protection, I used a snub nosed Smith & Wesson .357 mag in those days. Very reliable!

Today I have 3 Kimbers, they too are reliable, a carry model in stainless, full size in blue and a stainless target model. No jams or hangups in those guns.

However, when you speak of CCW and concealment, why even my Glock 29 can be a little large depending on how hot it is outside and what I am doing at the time. If real hot, I go the route of the Smith & Wesson "Airweight" in .38spl. in my pocket.

Now I doubt very seriously if my Kimber pistols will shoot, if I dropped them in the mud out of sight and then fished them out of the mud, only to bury them in sand. Shake them off and then try to fire them without having a problem such as in JAM.

I do own an old Springfield that when you shake it a little, will give off sounds of loose marbles inside the pistol. Yeah, it won't begin to shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards but it sure as hell will put 3 into the torso area of a man sized target at 21ft., that area being 9 inches in diameter in case you don't know. This pistol you could bury in the sand and throw into the mud and it will go BANG when you pull that trigger.

I have a fairly decent collection of pistols to include 5 1911's currently. They run the gamut from basicaly bone stock GI's to a full out custom. All guns can have some issues and all my 1911's have had a few tweaks that made me more confident in them. I have tried about every popular carry pistol out there and keep coming back to my 1911's 99% of the time and if im dressed i have a pistol on me.

I have never had a FTF, FTB or FTE in any f my 1911's, but i take good care of my carry guns, and keep them lubed. Seen many guys buy 1911's for all the reasons they are popular just to cry when they have feed issues its amazing what a little FP10 on the rails will do.

I occasionally carry my G23, but usually its one of the 1911's as im 6'3" 230 lbs and i can conceal em in any manner of clothes with no issue. My holsters are all Milt Sparks VX or Kramers and all of them hide the gun well and are comfortable for all day wear.

Like MontanaMan, I also carry the G27 more often than any other handgun.......it is just my first choice based on my own reasons and personal fit. Heck, in this weather (read......HOT!), I carry the puny NAA 22lr quite a bit as well.......

Had occasion to find myself buddied up to a gov. issue 1911 in '69 during my SE Asia tour now and again. Marines seemed to get alot of hand-me-downs.......some weapons being no exception. Most 1911's I handled back then barely had any slide to rail contact.....not enough anyway that any of us today would call "reasonable". Certainly didn't cause us any concern then......they just kept pluggin' away....big plugs at that.

Many of todays manufacturers mate their slides to rails/frame so tight that any imperfection at all in this union can and does cause issues. Other manufacturers do the same and get away with it due to better all around QC. Crap shoot.......for the most part, yes. But as Matt stated, proper lubrication is very important, especially to a finicky firearm of any type. This and perhaps a few tweaks can turn a Rosie 'O into a Jessica Alba, well, perhaps a bit of an exxageration, but you get the drift.

VA owned a Kimber UC II just like mine and curses the day he let 'er go. He was quite satisfied with that gun, but as we loonies are prone to do, we take some in and we move some out. Montanaman carries both the 1911 and G27 and Matt (MA) carries both the G23 and 1911's. I carry the G27 almost exclusively, while just as confident when my 1911 is aboard. I perhaps love my G23 even a bit better in regards to hand fit, but the G27 rides better and isn't a distant 2nd in my hand. Matt is a very solid 230 and all of 6'3", so it doesn't surprise me that the G23 fits him better.

These posts are only guides to what some of us have discovered over the years. The culmination of these years easily encompass centuries of experience. What we know, we know. What we don't know, we don't assume. We'd never make good politicians because our goal is to learn new stuff ourselves, but also to help guide those who may be less experienced, for whatever reasons and to be honest in what we share. We don't get paid, there's no points to be had and there's no food or sex in it for any of us. (Remind me again why we do this.....?). But even if you approached your next purchase usin' every last bit of info you've gleaned from this thread alone, there's still no quarantee that "Murphy" won't raise it's ugly head and bite you in the azz.......BTDT, as have all of us, I'm sure.

Buy what you'd like based on what you think fits your needs and hand best. Give it time to come along if at first it doesn't go as smoothly as you'd like. If it still doesn't "feel" right, turn it and get your 2nd choice. You may lose a few $'s or you may gain a few $'s during this transition, but the only thing that truly is important is that you end up with a CCW that you are totally confident in carrying........day-in and day-out.

Best of luck to you.

MontanaMan - appreciate the pic, but at the same time, it freaked me out!! I don't expect that that will go unresolved for long...... Makes me feel better about switchin' out to the Wilson BulletProofs......thanks and take care.

Thanks for the feed back guys.

I'm glad to see that it isn't blind emotional fanaticism to their 1911's and that many do carry other handguns. That was one of my main points I was trying to convey. That is the full size 1911 is a BIG pistol and HEAVY pistol. And yes while a good holster can help carry (& conceal) a fullsize 1911, it isn't going to turn it into carrying something like a little .380ACP. Also since a full size 1911 are a larger and heavier guns, I would hate to see someone buy one for self-dense only to discover this fact and end never carrying it, thus defeating the purpose of CCW, ie having a gun when you need one.

While its great to have those semi-custom 1911's built to tight standard for target accuracy, it kinda of sadens me that the manufactures sacrifice some of the 1911's legendary reliability.

Yes, I've had my CCW permit for about 6 years but have not used it for CCW. I got it because I wanted to hunt with a handgun in my home state and this was the easiest way to keep from getting hassled by the police and game commish. Also, I want to take a CCW class first. I want to make sure I'm comfortable with my handgun fist. Mine is DA/SA and its weird getting use to the trigger of this type thus my attraction to the single action 1911's, they're GREAT!! Not sure if those trigger are necessary the best of self-defense as MM mention I'd think they would require alot more deligent training with one.

Wow, you guys carry a G27! A friend let me squeeze off a few shoots with one. Snappy little SOB! Knew right then & there that wasn't the handgun for me. Did shoot a G19 and that was alot nicer shooting for me at least.

Hey guys, a quick question for you. The Kimber Pro CDP II really appeals to me. Any feedback on it? It's on the lighter side due to frame being aluminum instead of steel and 4" barrel instead of 5" barrel. Thanks!

lemort,

With regards to the G27, yes, it is snappy; I carry 155 grain Win Rangers in mine as I feel they are considerably more shootable in the light gun than a heavier bullet but still offer good terminal performance.

The G26 is the same gun in 9mm & is much more docile if you want to try that..............

As to the 4" Kimber Pro II; nice gun & as you know it has no barrel bushing & the recoil spring/guide is not the standard GI version.

I've not shot the alloy framed version, but have shot the steel version and I like it, tho the weight reduction from full size isn't much.

For comparison, I can tell you that I do have both an alloy frame & a steel frame Commander size 1911 and there's a noticeable difference in muzzle jump between the two; I imagine the 4" lightweight Pro would be essentially the same.

The trade off in ease of all day carry due to the weight reduction is a no brainer for me though.

MM

MM,

Thanks for the feedback on the Kimber Pro CDP!

I had failure to return to battery problems with my Kimber CDPII Compact. To make a long story short - contact Wolff Spring at gunsprings.com and get a spring that will work.

My CDP has worked flawlessly after the settling on a load and assembling the correct spring. The spring delivered with the new pistol appears to be about an inch too short - likely a spring from a 3 inch model.

Thanks for the tip Boise! How do you like your CDP?

This is the spring you want for a Pro.

Wolff Improved XP Recoil Spring for .45 ACP
Wolff improved design recoil spring offers higher battery pressure along with a higher recoil rating, providing optimal functioning.
For all Pro Carry Series and Compact 4" Kimber guns only .45 ACP
Stock No. 32725....$ 7.89ea

You can find it on their website:

Wolff Springs

MM

Leomort if ya get a good buy on the PRO CDP i say go for it. My Pro CDP has been my 1911 carry gun of choice for about 7 years and shows it. It carries the Wolff spring MM posted above. It has been every bit as accurate as any .45 ive shot with the 200 GR Gold Dots and the Winchester Ranger T's of same weight. It has a few of the MIM pieces swapped out as i dont want to every worry about em. It has never hiccuped from light plinking handloads to full house +P carry loads in well over 4k rounds. It is a bit more snappy then my old steel framed Colt Commander i traded for it had, but this is mostly a carry gun for me so i deal with it.

I do like the glocks as well, my G23 was initially purchased as a knock aroung gun, but tis simple, durable and accurate. As Magnumb said I can hide it well with my size, build and usual clothing choices, but i also carry a 5" Nighthawk 1911 on occasion and it too hides just fine. I was really fond of my customized G30 (Ashley sights, Grip reduction, lighter connector etc), but the GF really took to it and I would rather her carry a gun she likes that i know will work when needed, so its hers now. It too was an absolute CCW winner and as accurate as any full size ive ever shot, just a bit wider then the G27's magnum and MM like but certainly is a great peice as well.

Carry guns are a very personal thing, as long as the choice is a quality weapon that is taken care of and carried in a quality holster one should be happy. I have several Bianchi and Galco holsters and they are okay, but they do not compare to the wares of Milt Sparks, Kramer etc. Quality gun leather can really make or break a carry gun choice

Lithian,

MontanaMan correctly describes what could be an extractor related problem. Another area could be improper fitting of the barrel. If the barrel fits too tightly into the slide, then you would have problems with the gun going into battery. Solution; as mentioned, send it back and force them to get it right. Going into battery is NEVER a limp wristing issue.

Blasphemy, I know, but that could be the problem. The 1911 is a CRF design, Wilson mags are not.

As designed, when the round exits the magazine it is held in place by the extractor and the top of the chamber. The barrel is linked down enhancing the feed angle.

Wilson magazines release the round earlier and on a straighter line with the chamber, usually controlled by the extractor alone. It's a slap-chambering kinda deal like most other pistol designs. It might improve reliability in a 1911 where the feed geometry isn't quite right or an extreme bullet nose is used. The lack of CRF gives the cartridge more wiggle room to chamber.

The early and straight release of a Wilson magazine might also throw the round into the top/edge of the chamber while the barrel is still linked down. The case hangs and the slide doesn't return to battery.

Whenever there exists a feeding or functioning issue with an auto-loading firearm, one must first try a different magazine. I cannot over-emphasize the role of the magazine.

Especially with a 1911, for which there exists a bazillion different magazines.

Clones are too often disregarded when reliability is discussed, such as earlier in this thread. Glock patents are starting to expire. As more and more clones are made will we call them all G17's?

I like my CDP but don't often carry it, it is a very well made firearm. I prefering to carry a Taurus 85 Titanium. I'll also admit I don't carry often and live in a low risk area.

I truly enjoyed my phone conversation with Wolff and actually got to speak with the gentleman himself. I'm not doubting the part number shared above but am recommending you give him a call and share your problem. I purchased three springs, a light one for target loads, and two others for full power.

Gramps (we can call you that now, you know LOL), your age is showing................

Yes, any magazine can be a problem in any given gun as Kevin very rightly points out & it's hard to discover the real issues absent having the gun in hand.

But, I have had very good luck with the Wilson's (47 series) in 6 different 1911's I've tried them in; I do think the stronger spring is a big part of their success though.

As a rule, I prefer a more gradual release similar to the "newer" Colt hybrid design & have dressed the lips back on many others to get to that basic design............but I have to say again, the Wilson's have been very good for me as have the Tripp Cobra mags which are similar.

MM