Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Guide rifle and Moose, which bullet?

Hey gang, if you were gonna or have hunted moose with a 45/70 what slugs would be in the tops of your picks?

Many thx

Dober

Either Woodleigh or Swift; NorthFork are great, too, if you can find them. Of course others will also work- just about any of them but the ordinary hollow points.

Many years ago J.D. Jones of SSK Industries was making lots of 45/70 barrels for the TC Contender single shot handguns and Contender Carbines. This was before T/C adopted the cartridge as a factory chambering. He killed all manner of North American and African animals with the 400 gr Speer. The Speer is a flat nose vs a hollow point. Based on his experiences I used this bullet to take a cow elk at 185 yards - pass through. I currently am using 350 gr Hornadys in my 450 Marlin but haven't shot anything of any size with it yet. If you want that little bit extra confidence that comes with a premium bullet, go for it. But, honestly, at 45/70 (450 Marlin) velocities the cup 'n' cores work great. I carry my guide gun alot near Yellowstone where we see a good number of grizzlies and feel fine knowin' it has the Hornday's in it. My brother carries 405 Remingtons in his 45/70 Guide Gun. Now, if I was hunting where I might encounter the REALLY BIG bears (Alaska, for instance) I'd probably opt for something like Klikitarik mentioned.

ttpoz

In addition to the others mentioned, the 300 grain Speer Uni-core would be a good choice, also, but my first pick would be a 420 grain hardcast LBT style. They are absolute bone-smashers and penetraters, running somewhere around 1650 to 1750 fps at the muzzle.

I was kind of thinking 350 Horn, thoughts?

Thx
Dober

Use the Flat point, and run it about 1950 or so fps, and you will have a big problem--how to move that dead moose

In a previous thread on elk bullets I saw no mention of this either but what about cast bullets? I mean home-cast, not store bought. One that I've been experimenting with in my GG & 45/70 Highwall (both 1 to 20" twist) is Lyman 457121 (+/- 475 grs.). It functions flawlessly through the lever action. There are however two significant problems I have/am worked/working through. Problem 1)Though it's called "457..." it isn't. In a soft alloy it casts out from about .451 -.454 or so. Lyman is actually marketing it to Whitworth muzzleloader people. The black powder "kick" will make it bump up and fill the rifling and shoot well. Not knowing this I loaded them with some smokeless powder and every 5th or 6th shot keyholed. Not enough "bump up" even with a fairly soft alloy. When I did my internet homework and actually measured my bullets I switched to black powder (50 grs. of 3F) and the problem went away and I got decent groups through my Highwall. I've now loaded some duplex loads with 5 grs. of SR4759 and 44 grs. of 3F. I haven't gone to the range yet with these but I expect a good outcome. Problem 2) That BIG bullet takes up ALOT of case capacity. That's why the loads sound so wimpy and I'm trying the duplex loads for more velocity. I'm a little reluctant to run these through the GG just because of the supposed blowback of BP into the action and the cleaning chore that might represent. In my Highwall the blowback was not significant at all. Also, BP cleans up easier than I ever thought it would once I started with Mike Venturino's formula. (That's a 28 oz. bottle Windex w/ VINEGAR into a gallon jug and topped off w/ water.) So, if they work well in the Highwall I'll be trying them in the GG. I'm also thinking of trying something like IMR4227 for a "kick" from a powder that's faster burning than the medium burn rifle powders. I am also going to try straight linotype to get a bigger bullet that might not keyhole with smokeless. Incidentally, I ALWAYS place C F Ventures wax gas checks under my cast bullets in rifles w/ very happy results. Any direction from a contributor would be appreciated. Anyhow, it appears to me that a .45 caliber, 475 grain flat nosed bullet even at BP velocities ought to work at woods ranges on moose or elk or the kudu on the game ranches by my house.

Dimebox, those lead slugs at BP velocities worked very well on buffalo in the late 1800's, and I wouldn't be afraid to do the same thing today. It's a proven formula.

With a 475 grain slug, you will get sufficient penetration even a longer ranges, just dealing with the trajectory would the hard part. A few yards wrong in range estimation would result in a miss.

Get your obturation problem resolved, and you shouldn't have any problems with the game you mentioned.

Moving a dead moose is no problem. That's why Polaris makes a 500 Sportsman! I skid them out whole across a clear cut or even through the brush.

Dober,

My 1895 with the 22" bbl really likes the old Remmy 405 FP with enough Benchmark to lift your front foot off the ground under recoil. Heck, moose are easy enough to kill -- it don't take the hammer of Thor to drop one, just a bullet through the lungs. They usually only go about 25-30 yards with that kinda placement. I will be carrying my 1895 stuffed with the Remmys for my skulking in the brush rifle this fall. Got NO concerns about their effect on moose, and also no concerns about moving a dead moose. If'n ya need a hand, give me a call.

Aren't you supposed to wait until they grow up? Only ones I've seen that an ATV might move were the babies! (Now a snowmachine and sled, especially with a bit of a downhill to start, that's another story. Been stuck a lot of times hauling meat from less than a whole moose though.)

Dober I have shot a lot of those Hornady bullets in the 350 and I think myself, they are just a might to soft for moose and big bones. Just my opinion and I prefer those Swift A Frames, little more money but hells bells, they stay together and deliver the mail on time. Good Luck on the moose stew!

Thx for your responses guys, what about Nozler don't they make a Partition of some kind for a 45/70 and how about Barnes?

Thx
Dober

I believe Nosler discontinued the Partition, though they are probably still available retail. No doubt about it's performance. The Speer Uni-core is a very reliable bullet, and running 2000 or so fps, it hits hard, holds together, and has a fairly flat trajectory.

I run the Hornady 300 grainers at 2200 fps and the trajectory is virtually identical to my .30-30, but I can't really say that the bullet would be tough enough for Moose, I woundn't have the confidence in them that I do in the Speer Uni-core, but for deer, they are fine. Klikitarik has some top notch recommendations, and Tonk mentions a fine one, also.

My opinion, fwiw, is that a hardcast gascheck with a wide meplat would just be the huckleberry.

Admittedly, our moose are not quite the size of yours, but I've dragged 1200 pounders out without a lot of problems. I don't guess that Dober will connect with anything much bigger than that, but if he does, I'd be glad to help. Shiras moose in the northern ConUS likely look like babies to you too, Klik.

Dober,

Two years ago, I saw a moose shot with the nosler partition, explosive response on the hit.

Rear end of the moose hit the ground before the front, at about 100 yards.

FMP

Dober Nosler only makes a 300 grain bullet for a 45/70! I wish they would have made a 400 grainer but no such critter in the new #-6 reloading manual.

I went to Beartooth Pile-Drivers in the heavy loading for the 45/70, those suckers will stop a Hum-V you betcha. You check out the Beartooth sight, lots of info on those bullets.

I forwarded my opinion to Dober. I really don't believe a hardcast slug is neccesary. I smoked a moose out of his sneakers with one round from my old Sharps. That was a cast 30:1 slug and it penetrated through everything very easily. The MV for that was only 1400 fps. Dober is an accomplished rifleman so shot placement and accuracy are likely to be excellent. I think a cast slug at 25:1 with a Lyman #193 at 1500 should be as effective as any bullet one would use. The bullet would upset AND penetrate very nicely.

ET has it right. I would prpbably slow it down to about 1300 and shoot all the way through him.

FWIW: The 405 Remington is MUCH tougher than either the 350 Hornady or the 400 Speer, which are both VERY soft. They work OK if kept at 1500 to 1800 fps, but that Remington can be pushed to 2000 without problems. And yes, I also use a 465gr hardcast in my 22" Marlin at 1900 fps! It'll stop a freight train!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I've used the Beartooths in my M29 and really like them. Have had some thoughts to just taking it along in case the perfect stalking opp comes up.

Of course I'll have my Mashburn along if'n it doesn't...

Dober