Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders new muzzleloader

I am going to put my near mint mk-85 in semi retirement. So I went shopping, I found a CVA Optima Pro, a Traditions Pursuit and a Traditions Pursuit II XCT. They all range in the 250.00 -300.00. Given that is there any wisdom out there that could help me choose between the three?
Is traditions better than cva? Has anyone had problems with any of the three? I think the optima pro is last years model.
Thanks for any help in advance.

CVA has a much better product and their customer service is darn close to what TC offers.

Optima Pro is a great rifle but the CVA Accura is even better! You can order the blue/black Accura for around $289 and sometimes less. I bought mine from R&R Arms - Stainless/black thumbhole for $373 shipped!

If you want to know what year the optima was made, the very last 2 digits in the serial number is the year code.

i would agree with BB455

I'm happy to hear this, I prefered the safety system on the CVA to the Traditions. I assume accuracy is about even between them.

the c.v.a.s are a better in accuracy dept. i have 2 kodiaks 45-50 and there inch or closer at 100 yards with 100 gr of america ponnier 3 fg ,or 3 7s 3fg my traditions 1.5-2 inch with all i tried

OK...give me a little leeway...it is NOT my opinion, because I have not shot a CVA, but I have read a ton of internet banter that CVA's are dangerous due to the fact they use foreign substandard barrels...i.e. they have catastrophic failure...anyone else hear this?

I can narrow this even more now. I can get a CVA Accura or a TC Omega at the same price. I bet the CVA uses a plastic cap to hold the primer like my MK 85 does, TC looks like it doesn't. My choice will definetly wear a scope though and the CVA looks like it has a better cheek weld for scopes. The CVA has a new Bergera barrel though that is supposed to be better. I had a chance to pull the trigger on an Omega and it was pretty good for an inline. This is a pretty close call and I won't exactly suffer either way but input is certainly welcome.
Thanks Gents.

fatjack, that crap u read im 100% sure was by randy wakeman. Hes speaking of the recall 1995 & 96 inline.

The bergara barrel is made from the same stock they use for their centerfire barrels. Excellent steel! CVA gets their steel from all over the world, including the USA.

I had the omega and it was a good rifle and all but a pain to clean IMO. The break opens are a lot easier + TC has issues with their plastic stocks being flexy and changing Point of impact every time u take it apart to clean.

If you think the Omega trigger was good, The Accura comes from the factory with zero grit/take up and 1 1/2lb to 2lb trigger. Its the sweetest trigger ive ever pulled on the 30+ muzzleloaders i have owned.

Heres my Accura's BEST group with the Thor conical @ 100 yards.


Check out that reading. Thats 3 shots measured outside to outside!

Also forgot, No CVA has ever used those silly plastic primer carriers!

bigblock...I am not sure of the sources. That is why I made clear it was an opinion I read and not my own. Randy certainly has an opinion on CVA's, but I have read many others too/ Just wanted to get a vibe for what is the reality/ Thanks man!

Cabela's has their Accura's on sale again. The blue/black for $269.00.

Nice very nice you hit all the buttons Bigblock. I am going to put the order in on the CVA. I was leaning that way to begin with. I am glad to hear about the lack of plastic primer carriers. I love the old Mk 85 but hated the way it scorched the scope. I agree about the tip up barrel. I imagine bases can be purchased from CVA.
I bet you could suggest a powder and bullet that makes the CVA happy.
Thanks for the pictures Bigblock and for all of the good info from all involved.

Cabela's 269? the last I looked it was 299. This is getting better by the minute.

Sabots 451 to 452" DIA bullet:
260gr Nosler HP
300gr XTP Mag
250gr XTP

Powder: 90 to 110gr Pyrodex RS ( Its mainly all i use )

You'll want to use the Short black mmp-12 sabot with these. They load very firm but CVA barrels have always done the best for me with a tight fitting sabot.


One more Sabot load that shot good for me:
200gr .40cal Lehigh in the dark blue sabot with 150gr Pyrodex RS.


Powerbelts:
245gr Aerotip 80-90gr Pyrodex RS
348gr Aerotip 90-110gr Pyrodex RS
338gr Platinum 100gr + Pyrodex RS

The most accurate bullet so far is with the 250gr Ballistic tip Thor conical with 110gr Pyrodex RS. The 247gr Colorado Thor also shoots a quarter size hole for 3 shots @ 100. I highly recommend that you email Thor and request a sample pack to figure out what Diameter bullet you'll need ( My Accura uses the .500" thor ) These bullets have done great in the 2 rifles ive shot them out of so far.

Primers, If you dont mind swabbing every 2 shots or so with Pyrodex RS, I highly recommend the Winchester W209 primers as they are Super clean. The Winchester 777 primers ease the crud down a bit but the fouling they leave all over the action of the rifle, is just unbelievable. I shoot them anyway but as soon as i run out of them, the Winchester W209's will do perfectly fine.

Blackhorn209 is also a great area to look, but its pricey! If you want to just shoot bh209 for hunting so you dont have to worry about cleaning, thats perfect! It just would hurt the wallet for range shooting. At least for me it would!!

If you look above at my post of the Accura with the exposed primer area, that rifle was shot 3 times with heavy 348gr powerbelts and a 100-110gr charge of RS. There was zero fouling with those Winchester W209s.

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?search=cva+accura

Thanks for all the info Bigblock I went to both links. I still have a full pack of Knight 250 gr sabots to use up. I have everything I need to measure loose powder I think I'm going to move away from pellets. I have considered a sabot to be a potential weak link in accuracy (after all my rifles don't use them) and I would like to move into the Thor or power belt design. I take it you work your way through a sample pack of different diameter bullets looking for the size the gun prefers. Does the sample pack contain one of each? Kind of hard to get an accuracy read with one shot.
I'll get those Winchester W209s for sure.

The sample pack of thors comes with One of each : .500" - .501" - .502" and .503" This is just a sizing sample! Thor bullets are solid copper, no lead! If you get one size to big, you wont get them down the bore as its to hard to cut into your rifling like a lead conical does.

Start with the .500" thor and it should go down the bore with 25-30lbs force on the ramrod. The .501" Thor wouldnt even go into the bore as it was to big.

Once you get the size of bullet you barrel needs, You can either call or email thor for your first order.

They have the 247gr colorado thor, 250gr thor and the 300gr thor. They have more bullets coming out this fall, including an inexpensive all lead thor bullet.

After you get the bullets that you need, it then comes to figuring out the rifles sweet spot, Powder wise and even primer wise. Primers can cause huge headaches.

Thanks Bigblock I joined the powerbelt forum as well, same handle. Essentially this strikes me to be like working through all of the variables that go into handloading ammo for a particular gun. You just do your pet load on the spot.
I will be ordering the Accura come monday.
I work with a blackpowder hunter who may have a freebe coming from me of some saboted bullets and pyrodex pellets!

My Walnut stocked, twenty + year old Knight MK-85 is a beauty for sure but I have a feeling that the Accura, loose powder correct primers and non sabot bullets will be taking me to a in to a whole new ballgame.

Heck, find the thor that fits your knight while you're at it! It may have the larger Dia. Bore.