Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Poke The Fire -- Stick, Blaine,Ken

Light and fast? -- Slow and heavy?<BR>Been watching this around the campfire forever. I have three caliber pellet rifles, 5MM, 177, and 22. All are slow,(up to 900'PS). I have been using them for years. Before rules changed, I could shoot a squirrel with the 22,(slow and heavy), down he would come, almost like a 22Long Rifle. Shoot one with the 177,(light and faster), many different pellet designs, and they would fall out but not a fast as the 22 pellet. Now the Sheridan Silver Streak,5MM, pumped up was fast and the solid pellet will shoot through cans, boards, and small game BUT, it doesn't kill game like the other two. Unless the central nervous system is hit the animal, bird, will excape to die a slow hard death. Had to shoot a stray cat six times yesterday, two times with barrel 4" from head, first time thought he was dead, five minutes later dog was having a fit, looked out in the yard and cat had his head up growling at Jackie after blood running out both ears. Grabbed gun and shot him again. Felt so sorry for the cat but couldn't help it at the time. The pellets pencil through and do little damage, the wound seals up and animal dies slowly. I will never shoot another animal with the Sheridan pellets.<BR>Now to relate this to big game.<BR>Caliber and speed are not as important as the projectile,(bullet for us Texas guys). A fast rifle with the wrong bullet is like shooting prairie dogs with EX, and one too tough just pencils through. The slow calibers are more for short range brush timber hunting with bullets made to plow through brush, bone, and meat without destroying too much meat but the size and weight of the bullet,(like the 22 pellet), delivers devasting shock to the animal.<BR>JMHO, Proper bullet for the game hunted in the conditions hunted is the most important factor of all, regardless of caliber or speed. You can use any caliber for many different things,(within reason), with proper bullet construction and weight. That's what makes handloading so great, along with the economic thing, especially in the larger calibers. <BR>Bet old Ken could run with this one, not to mention all the loaders around here. What you think? -- no

...you asked ! I think you should pull your post before it becomes a thread. The graphic depiction of you doing ballistic testing on a cat has no place on the board. IMHO<BR> It really casts you in a poor light, and I doubt if many of us will learn anything from your mistake.<BR> You definitely poked the fire....but then that was the intent! I cant believe the lack of descretion used here. SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT-UP! Sparkman<BR>P.S. I truly hope YOU trash/DELETE YOUR post...(mine will then die with it) hint, hint!

Sparkman, you are an optimist, and I salute you, sir.<P>Need One, Geeeeeezz! He's right, imo. It doesn't exactly shed a favorable light on gun folks as a group. Please delete, fwiw.

I love cats, let's trade recipes. <P>I hate to get into this, but the beloved Tabby is a stone killer when exposed to the wild, can and will survive and breed without human help, and, if said feline, or any of his progeny, are not in someone's own yard or personal care should be shot on sight if they and you are in a rural area. University studies found that a domestic cat, with hunting opportunities, will kill between 3 and 10 birds per day. In short, they are a walking environmental disaster. Pets are fine, strays are dead.<P>Need One's only offense was that he didn't use enough gun and talking about it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Need One's only offense was that he didn't use enough gun and talking about it.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Agreed.

I whole-heartedly agree......hence -> S. S. & S. Sparkman

Although I hate to admit agreeing with IIFID, I do. Stray cats are vermin. Kill 'em all. Furthermore, I believe all domesticated felines should be kept in the house where they belong. That's why they are called "house cats." To let house cats run outside is totally irresponsible pet ownership. When outdoors, they become prone to disease, poisoning, getting run over by vehicles, being eaten by dogs, or shot.<P>If you <I>really</I> love cats like you say you do, keep them inside or stand back while someone like NO takes up the responsibility for you.<P>P.S. - This is not directed at anybody here since it appears all are in agreement, though some don't want to publicly admit it. I respect that. My sentiments are directed at the PETA crowd (in the event that any happen to be lurking).

Even though I don't care for cats I usually try to keep a few around the barn and other buildings for mouse and rat control. When I'm away from the homestead and I run across a cat it is fair game, they are death on quail and pheasents not to mention other nongame species. While there are several animals I'm not fond of (cats included ) I always use enough gun to ensure a clean kill. The last cat I dispatched was with a 454 Casull, I will plead guilty to overkill in this case but I didn't hear the cat complain. If I lived in town and had cat problems I may be forced to use something such as an air rifle, but that's not a concern, I'll never live in town.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DeerTexas:<BR><STRONG> ......... If you <I>really</I> love cats like you say you do, keep them inside or stand back while someone like NO takes up the responsibility for you. ........<P>P.S. - This is not directed at anybody here since it appears all are in agreement, though some don't want to publicly admit it. I respect that. My sentiments are directed at the PETA crowd (in the event that any happen to be lurking).</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just for the record, I have no qualms about humanely killing feral cats, and have no qualms about admitting it publicly, either .... but that wasn't the point. <P>Its dirty laundry, and ammo for anti-gunners. I'm not trying to roast Need One here, just see his poor judgement (in this case) and needlessly graphic post as being potentially damaging for our cause, and totally unnecessary to start a discussion of ballistics. Have a good one, seriously! <BR> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Btw, Need One .... If you live in the city, I would recommend a live trap, a trip into the country, and a 12 gauge.

PC,nor Yuppieness,is my long suit. I'm too much a realist,to think for a second,that we are ALL in dire jeopardy of losing our Arms,because of a "Feral Cat Killing" thread.<P>Most cats are vermin and always have been. I suppose city follks see it different,than those that live in more sprawling areas. On the farm,a renegade/feral cat,is pure poison. It was part of farm life and more or less a chore,to slick those cats up,when opportuntiy arose.<P>So rather than try to convince someone that has never seen the carnage a feral cat can and WILL do,I'll discuss the crux of the post. Like anything else,there are good Cat Guns and lesser choices.<P>I'm of the opinion,that there is nothing more tenacious in it's clinging to life,than a feral cat. The scattergun was a good choice on the farm,for barn clearing missions. The 22lr a natural,because one was generally close. I've done the Sheridan treatment and it too will serve with satisfaction. The bottom line,like anything else,is placement. I was always impressed by the placement of an ounce and a half of copper plated #2's.<P>I submit that a 223 and 40gr BT's or V-Max,is fully deserving of serious thought,for those unlucky individuals who are truly cat plagued. <P> So consider the dirty laundry aired,because feral cats are a real concern to many and rate legitimate discussion in my book. I guess I'll be the fall guy..........

<B>BIG STICK HAS SPOKEN !!!!!</B> <BR> [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>Now I'm a yuppie? Good one, Stick!

We have a couple of house cats that are fixed and de-clawed, they stay in the house. We have four "barn cats" they are also fixed and stay on the property. That said, any interlopers or feral cats seen in the woods are "targets" period. They do far too much damage to be left to roam. I just don't care for the way the subject was presented, but I will dispatch feral and/or stray cats myself given the opportunity.<BR>As to Alligators in the farm ponds, that's another story altogether, ain't legal but the damn things will take calves if they are 7 ft. or better. Don't have a central nervous system like warm blooded critters so I use 30-06 with 180 grain soft points. The more you tear it up the better.

Gotta throw my two cents in on Sonnie&#8217;s side. I don&#8217;t see anything wrong with his first post. Perhaps &#8220;blood running out both ears&#8221; is a bit graphic, but no more than posted pictures of � of a prairie dog. I feel it was just a good post of here&#8217;s what I did and it didn&#8217;t work so be warned. No less deserving of space than posting about poking an antelope with a 200 grain bullet from a .308 and telling how it ran off with a pencil hole through it.<P>How about the actual reason for the first post? Do y&#8217;all think that bullet construction is the prime consideration?<P>I&#8217;d have to disagree with that, but mostly just to place a greater importance on placement. I can kill an elk with a 55 grain varmint bullet froma .223 as long as I slip it between his ribs. A Hornady 165 Interlock is just as deadly a deer/elk/moose bullet as a 180 grain Partition. The construction part comes in with the fact that I should probably limit my shots to broadside or frontal with the Hornady and can take a rear quartering shot with the Nosler. But as long as the bullet can make it to the vitals, it doesn&#8217;t matter what the construction is as long as I place it well.<P>My order of importance, 1 being lowest and 100 highest, is to put bullet placement at about 99, bullet construction at about 50 &#8211; this number depends on where you place it. And just FWIW, I&#8217;d place the brand and type of rifle you use to launch the bullet at about a 3 -as long as it goes bang when you pull the trigger and places the bullet somewhere within a couple inches of POA then it&#8217;s a good rifle.

Back a few years ago, a fellow near Johnstown was caught shooting, then running over a cat. If I remember right, he got hit with a hefty fine and probation. I would have given him a reward. Say.. A box of shells and 5 gallons of gas. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Cats, feral or otherwise, are poison to birds and small game. A feral cat kills to feed itself, but a domestic tabby will kill just for the sake of killing.<P>What really kills me is this. Some folks don't know what to do when their cat has a litter. They wait until the kittens are weaned, then take them out and turn them loose on a dirt road. I've seen this happen many times.<BR>7mm

Need One - Next time you'll have to use your 35 Whelen. How about posting some pictures of that cat.

I don't have any problem with people dealing with pests. And a bunny-hugger doesn't have to wait for the cat killing thread if he wants a graphic depiction of a dead or dying animal on a hunting forum.<P>I could actually use a few more cats around, to help me with my varmint problem. I'm sure I would feel differently if my varmints had any sort of redeeming quality as game animals, like pheasants or quail. We had a couple cats hanging around for a while, and I just let them be for the same reason that others shoot them, but then a BIG kitty ate them last summer. So next year I'll be wading butt-deep in potguts again. The foxes can't keep up, they probably have to beware the rifles themselves, and the sheep guys shot out all the coyotes decades ago. It's all screwed up, and the only thing left is the rifle.<P>BTW, a .17cal pellet doesn't do very well on potguts, either. I've switched to .22shorts and just watch my backstop (don't want to bounce a .22 off a rock into the pickup!) and try to be discreet (i.e. wait until the neighbor isn't looking). <P>Just picture EllieMae and NO, sitting on their porches with a cup-o-joe early in the morning on potgut watch, all hairy and scratching in their pink batik robes and matching pink potgut rifles. Yikes. -al

Loud Cloud,<P>Perhaps the crux of my post,was taken out of context. I was certainly not berating anyone on this Forum,for their thoughts on this matter. Were I to do that,I'd state names and make my points very clear,so there would be no misunderstanding and I could accurately communicate my thoughts to a specific individual. <P>My take on being PC and the Yuppified nature of many,was directed towards the uneducated masses,who have zero idea of the ruthlessness of feral cats. <P>I'm thinking you took what I said in stride and didn't feel like I personally attacked your thoughts. If you were to feel,my thoughts were directed towards you personally,you are mistaken. That was not my intent.<P>So back to Sonnie's thrust of his post. My thoughts are,anytime you are wanting to do a good job at a certain task,it is best to have the appropriate tools. My thoughts are the same as Jim in Idaho's,that placement is the key. Often,actual cartridge selection is moot,assuming one's choice is somewhere in the middle of the available spectrum.<P>That being said,I'd say the Sheridan is on the light side,a 375H&H towards the heavy. Though certainly both can perform the task,it is likely a better move to choose something more towards the middle.<P>Cats are amazingly tough,but NOT tough enough to withstand high impact velocities generated from a frangible bullet. <P>Again,I submit the 223 and 40's,is the "Cat's Meow"(grin).............

Sonnie,<P>You definately stoked the fire! I'll say shot placement in combination with knowing the limitations of your chosen bullet is foremost. Good shot placement is wasted if you try and make a bullet do something it isn't designed for. Good bullets won't make up for poor shot placement. No your guns limitations, and no your quary, hmm, hunting 101.<P>Another thing to consider, bigger bores and moderate velocities place less demand on bullets, so construction isn't as crucial. Also, bigger bores don't need high velocity to be effective killers. The only thing velocity helps is flattening trajectory.<P>I'm still 1/2 seriously debating my Alaskan Varmint rifle, I'd like to neck the 500 AHR case down to 45 caliber, and launch a 500 gr bullet at 3000 fps, trajectory of a 270, with a bit more authority [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] I can honestly say I can't imagine using it on any game, but it would be a novel gun for the range.

Need One,<P>You had me on the edge of my seat with that story! Kinda like the script from a Mark Sullivan "Black Death" video!<P><I>"As the fearless Cat Hunter (CH) walks up to his downed foe, adrenaline flowing out of his limbs, thankful he's still breathing that sweet Texas air (smog?), he reaches out with the still smoking barrel of his chosen rifle, and attempts to poke the cat in the eye. <P><BR>Suddenly the feral killer regains it's feet and looks directly at our mighty hunter like he owes him money (Capstick?) The sinewy Need One leaps back with a grace never before seen that far east of a DFW gay pride parade, and brings his arm to bear. "Let the cat decide his fate" roars ol'Need One as he levels the front ivory sight just above the dagga cats whiskers, and let's slip the last hair of sear engagement..."</I><P> [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]

My favorite kind of cat is a road rug.<BR>My favorite kind of road rug is a cat.<BR>Cats are varmints.<BR>The "distinction" between feral cats and "house" cats is essentially a soft, polite fiction -- no cat is tame. Some exploit the ease and subsidy of indoor living, but they're all equally, basically wild animals.<BR>All cats are predators at heart -- some are just too lazy to hunt when they can live on human support in a house where they're fed and pampered.<BR>A "house" cat that's allowed to roam is a subsidized predator.<BR>I have worlds more sympathy and respect for the cat that has to make his own way, without the subsidy of house-living.<BR>(He's still a varmint -- just not quite as despicable as the subsidized predator.)