Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires peeps vs. "open" irons

I've never really shot a lot with peep sights .... why do folks prefer them over standard open irons??

all opinions welcome.

I'll take a crack at it. Being a scientist it should make sense to you. First of all, there's a longer sight radius, which reduces error. I know that a 36" radius gives about 1 MOA of change of POI for each .010 of movement of the rear sight. Thus, the increased sight radius with an aperture rear sight improves accuracy over open sights.

Another thing is the so-called self-centering quality of an aperture or rear sight. I recently read a comment by a veteran HP competitor who said that's not strictly true, that you still have to concentrate on centering the rear aperture, but be that as it may, with an aperture rear you really only have to focus on two planes instead of three as with open sights. That's a huge help for aging eyes.

I shoot BPCR silhouette these days, both open sight and scope class with the same rifle. Even though it's somewhat counterintuitive, the scores in scope class aren't all that much higher than with iron sights. If nothing else, it does tend to validate the inherent accuracy of aperture sights.

Good vintage style iron sights aren't cheap, which comes as a shock to those who pick up something like a Sharps for the novelty or cool factor (not that there's anything wrong with that). A good set of match grade iron sights runs about $500-600, about the cost of a good modern hunting scope.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Avagadro: Depending on ones applications, peep sights can be amazingly accurate. Their only downside in my book is in low-light hunting situations and target acquistion against dark backgrounds. With larger apertures, even that issue can be partially overcome, and with larger apetures they are quick to align in close quarters.

Other upsides: They are wonderful for target shooting. With black and white targets that fit ones apertures properly, one can shoot almost as well as those with high magnification scopes. World class small bore shooters are actually nailing X rings that they can not see. Unlike many scopes with detented adjustments (the finest I have run 1/8 inch clicks), one can make infinitely small adjustments with well constructed (and expensive) peep sights.

With sights mounted on the rear of the receiver, or even on the tang, one has a longer and more sensitive sight plain than any other system. Think of aiming something like the buckhorn sights on my 600 Rem with about a 14 inch span between sights, and my Sharps that has a 37 inch gap between the front and its tang sight. Obviously, that longer plain is a sighting asset. A sighting error of 0.001 inch in alignment with the short span is more of an issue than the same error with twice the length.

Although I am older than dirt, I just recently acquired my Sharps with about $600 in sights installed. I shoot front and rear apetures, and prior to owning this rifle, never dreamed I could do less than MOA groups with iron sights. They are scary accurate.

Yep.

I go over this stuff in my hunter ed. classes. One thing we point out is that the U.S, military has been using aperture rear sights since WW II, and they have to be rugged and fast.

There are differences between aperture sights designed primarily for hunting, vs. target shooting, but the basic principles are the same.

Paul

Thanx Gents .... great information. The reason I ask is my 39A currently wears a 4x scope ... but it just don't look right so its coming off for open irons. There is another thread on the rimfire forum regarding 22 sights and someone linked a manufacturer of peep sights ... only $54. This rifle is for huntng and plinking only. So I'm giving some thought to going with peep sights.

Any other suggestions for different peeps for a 39A??

Thanx!!

George,

The first sights that come to mind are the Marble and Lyman. They might be a tad over the price you are aiming for, but they're good sights and they makes bases for most rifles. Would look at home and work great on your Marlin.

If you want to look at a variety of tang sights, including those for lever rifles, check out www.buffaloarms.com. They have Lyman and Marble.

Keep in mind that the expensive match sights offer precise, repeatable adjustments for changing distances during competition. For hunting and plinking you don't need all of that. You're really just looking for a hole on a shaft that can be adjusted to hit center, then pretty much left alone.

Paul

Shooting at distance especially to me is much easier with peeps

Shooting service rifle and small bore is much easier with peeps or aperture because it allows your sighting to be done on the same focal plane. This is the same reason people can shoot more accurately on average with scopes than iron sights.

Peeps like scopes help to eliminate parallax.

An easy example of this is shooting an M1 garand versus and ar-15. The military trainees you to press your nose right up against the charging handle of the AR-15. This allows you to get a repeatable cheek weld every time. You obviously can not do this with the M1 Garand because of the recoil. If you do not get a consistent cheek weld location every time your zero will actually shift. There you can shoot two different groups at the same target. This will often occur when magazine changes occur.

Hope this helps

I can't shoot well with peeps, never could.
Believe me I tried, just never could do as well as with a good iron sight.

Williams and Lyman both make receiver peep sights specifically for the Marlin 39a, starting @ $35.

If you mount a peep, don't forget to order or make a slot filler blank and remove the rear barrel sight for a clean sight picture.

Peep sights should be looked through, and not AT - with the only consious centering attempts during target shooting - where smaller apertures give slightly better accuracy due to the sharper image, even though the smaller the aperture is, the slower/harder it is to use.

For hunting, after zeroing, many shooters simply remove the threaded aperture and shoot through the resulting "ghost ring", lending a great deal of speed to target acquisition on game, w/o much loss of practical accuracy.

On hunting rifles, a "high visibility" front sight works even better - like a fiber optic front, which is available is different colors and bead sizes, just like conventional sight blades.
Thw Williams FireSight, the Tru-Glo, and the Hi-Viz are three manufacturs currently making a fairly diverse line of F-O sights.

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Peeps are self centering in a sense. Take a peep sighted gun and move your head up and down slightly as you look at the front sight through the peep. Depending on the size of the peep, you should be able to see the height of the front sight post grow taller as you raise your eye position and shrink shorter as you lower your eye position. This optical illusion occurs because the lens strength (diopter) of the aperature increases as your line of sight gets closer to the outside of the hole (edge diffraction).

For example, I was shooting a 25-20 this weekend at 50 yards. The aperature is just over .1 inch. Field of view at 50yds when looking through the peep was about 90 inches. Moving my head up and down by about 50 inches worth (at 50 yds) only changed the point of aim (where the top of the front sight indicated) by about 5 inches on the target. In other words, the peep was reducing my sighting error by about 10 to one.

Peep sights also increase depth of field, allowing you to focus on the front sight and the target at the same time. They are real helpful to those of us with old eyes.

People who have trouble shooting with peeps are usually trying too hard to get the front sight in the exact center of the hole. Doing that makes you jumpy and wears you out. Take confidence in the fact that the peep will compensate for small errors and you will find your shooting ability improves as you relax.

When hunting with receiver sights, take the eyepiece out and just look through the sight....very fast. good for woods hunting.
Bill

Most folks that can't shoot a peep is because as Wahoo says they didn't take the aparture out.

I like both irons and peeps, peeps are probably more accurate anyway you cut it but especially as the range increases and the peep is much faster.

I love me some plinkin with a peep!! I just re-did a Rem 121 with a Lyman peep, I find the peep WAY more accurate.

Guess on my part as I've not seen many who hunt with aperture sights, but I rather think most folks veer from the path of righteousness by attaching too small of an aperture to their gun. Target shooters use small to very small apertures and they are wholly unsuited for hunting unless you're plinking varmints or other long range quarry in ample light.

Ghost ring sights are OK IF they have sufficient thickness in the ring. Most do not. Yeah, I know.."ghost" and all that. Pooh. A hunting aperture looks about like this or LARGER:

http://www.bigedgesports.com/product.asp?pid=2069191&lvl=1&cl=NA&cl2=NA

With adequate aperture diameter and a thick blade or post front sight you really don't give up much daylight to a scoped rifle. I don't think the hiviz front sights are necessary or desirable FWIW. Simple is as simple does. They are accurate beyond what most people can do in the woods and out to fairly long range. They acquire moving targets quickly as well, particularly if you're prone to keeping both eyes open.

That would be my opinion based on about 20 years of using a Model 94 Trapper so equipped. Your truck probably cannot haul all the deer and hogs that rig put down.

I like peeps with a globe front sight, a little more challenging than a scope but not hard to master.

Apertures are cheap, get a couple sizes and match to conditions and how well your eyes work. Rule of thumb: if you go bigger than 0.20 inch the tendency to automatically center the front sight goes away. Depends somewhat on how well your eyes work and how your brain is wired.

Some people say the brass insert around the aperture - type help, no difference to me on a receiver mounted peep.

Or if you don't mind spending a little more you could get the Merit adjustable aperture.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

(scroll down)

I use one threaded into a Williams peep on one of my hunting rifles. Close it down to sight in, open it up for normal field work, close it back down for long shots. It's way cool.