Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Never hunted elk, have trip planned next year - Rifle Thoughts...

OK "Elk" gurus... I am in need of your seasoned opinion.

I am a turkey and deer hunter at heart. Never hunted any further west than Missouri but have plans to hunt Elk next fall.

I wanted to list a few rifles and see what you all thought would be my "best" two options to take (main rifle and a back up rifle)

I'm told by the outfitter shots should range from 100 yards to 200 yards but it would be best if I was practiced out to 300 yards.

So here's the line up;

Browning BLR .358 Win.
Winchester Model 70 (PF) .270 WSM
Remington Model 700 XCR .270 Win
Remington Model 700 SS 30-06 Sprg.
Winchester Model 70 SS Classic .338-06 (should be built in time to take on hunt)

Also, when you suggest which two to take - please make suggestions on bullets/weights to use...

30-06 #1, 338-06 backup. 180gr TSX for #1, 210gr TSX for #2.

Remington Model 700 SS 30-06 Sprg. 180 Nosler Partition or 168 TTSX

Winchester Model 70 SS Classic .338-06 (should be built in time to take on hunt) 210 Nosler Partition or TSX

Don't use outfitters...

Wow, glad I asked...

I was thinking the 270 WSM with 150 gr. pills (tipped trophy bonded) and the .338-06 with 185 gr. TSX's...

Would love to know more about this statement...

What he said though which is your main gun should be the one you shoot best.

Dawn, look at the threads, most recently the Elk thread regarding Unit 15 in NM. A lot of the outfitters, given the increased hunting pressure, had put a sour taste in a LOT of people's minds...myself included. If you MUST use an outfitter, please research them thoroughly and especially see if any non-client hunters have had any run-ins with them.

There are a lot of good outfitters. Don't let one well known bad one sour you on an outfitter.

Even tho a lot of people despise them, I still recommend them for a first time hunter. Even tho they cost more than a DIY you'll save more in the trouble/heartache of learning especially if you are not from that area.

Go once with a good guide/outfitter who can actually teach you something about hunting whatever you are after and then you'll be in good shape the rest of your life to go it alone if you desire.

I've shot elk with the .270 and 130gr hornady interlocks without issues but given the list of choices for a "destination hunt", I'm sticking with the '06 (s).

Will do and thanks for the heads up... Will be reading a "WHOLE" lot more in upcoming months...

I've never understood why so much emphasis is placed on rifle/caliber selection for hunting, esepcially elk hunting.

Any of the ones you list will work as well as any other one if you use a decent bullet. I've yet to see an elk shot throught the ribs run off reguardless of what its shot with. Take the one you feel most comfortable with and shoot the best.

The best thing to do is GET IN SHAPE you'll enjoy the hunt 10x more if you can keep going day after day and have the will power to hike an extra 2-3+ miles to chase an elk.

That part I've honestly been working on and plan to work on more. So far, I've lost 72 lbs... and I'm about to really start working on my cardio to get it built up...

338-06 with a quality 210 gr bullet, either '06 or 358 as backup.

I'm with Bambistew. Take the rifle(s) you like to shoot/carry the best and use a TSX, Accubond or Partition, whichever shoots best.

I am hunting first season rifle here in Colorado and still haven't decided whether I want to carry my 7mm-08AI with 140 Accubonds, my Kimber .308 Win with 168TSX, or my 338-06AI with 225 Accubonds. All have killed elk just fine, although I must say the 338-06 killed my bull last year with a bit more authority than the other two - knocked him off his feet, rolled downhill 100 yards and never took a step. It was steep, which brings me to my next point...

The Kimber and the 7mm are both really light and I spend way more time carrying than I do shooting as will you. So put in the physical conditioning effort, see what shoots best and decide what you want to "Carry" on the steeps at elevation. Me, I still can't decide but caliber falls way down the list of decision criteria for me.

Pawn that BLR off and get a 243win.It's the Cats ass on big bulls.

Dang! I feel out of place here taking my .378 Wby or my .416 Swift (necked down .505 Gibbs case). I'm for all the gun you can shoot accurately. However, I also believe the bigger the hole, the better. I know, I know. Dead is dead. I like having full coverage insurance though.

Although I am far froma elk hunting expert I will offer advice I paid for in sweat and swear words born of lessons hard learned.

<>A-No#1 above all else get your self in as good a shape as you can long before leaving. A mile at 600' above see level is nothing at all like a mile at 6000' let alone 8000' feet above see level. Nothing short of at the minimum your hunts success depends on this inescapable fact, up to a max your life may depend on you being in excellent shape if you happen to find yourself in a survival situation.
<>No#2-Be as good at land navigation and using a compass as you can be. Also it is excelent advice to invest in some hybred air/topo maps from www.mytopo.com With a good air photo topo overlay map you will soon relize as did I they are worth their weight in diamonds for use when hunting in compleatly unfamilure ground and will go a looooong way at helping you to keep your self found. Since going to the Hybrid maps I get from Mytopo, I no longer even buy regular topo maps or BLM maps. See if you can find a orientering club near were you live as they are a excellent way to become good at land navigation.
<>N0#3-Reasurch the liveing he11 out of the unit your hunting. You simply can not have to much info about the unit. Of extream importance is finding the best possable glassing points. I spend far more time hunting for elk with my binos and spotting scope than with my rifle or bow. Call the unit biologist, game wardens and any one else that might have any info on where to find elk and glassing points. Also find out how much roaded access there is in the unit so as to get an idea how much quad and 4x4 traffic you are likely to encounter abd plan for it acordingly.
<>No#4-come up with a good game plan on how, where and when you are going to hunt areas you are interested in that THROUGH YOUR RESEARCH of the unit you plan on hunting.
<>No#5-Allow yourself as much time to scout and hunt the unit as you can. I strongly believe that getting in a unit at least five full days prior to opening day to scout the unit is your best insurance after excellent resurch for you to have a successfull and enjoyable hunt.
<>No#6-Make sure all of the equipment you are going to use on this hunt is well tried out and your comepleatly familure with hiw to use it, and in the case of boots and socks, WELL BROKEN IN. In the middle of a elk trip over 1000 miles from home IS NOT the time you want to discover short cumings or out rite failings in any of your equipment, especially eqipment your hunts success might hinge on like your hunting pack or rain gear. Make sure all your stull will work and stand up to some significant use/abuse.
<>No#7-Do what ever it takes to get as far away from everyone else and all roads as you can. Far fewer people = more elk.
<>No#8-Make and keep with you at all times while in the field hunting a survial kit and first aid kit. The survial kit should have in it among alot of other things a absolute 100% reliable fire starter and fuel as well as some thing to make a small shelter to get you through a unexpected night or two in the mountains and also at least one days supply of EM food. If you search this sight as well as others there is a near endless supply of info on what you should have in your survival and first aid kits.
No#9-If you are going to use a outfitter research him as compleatly as possable. No outfitter worth their weight in elk droppings will take offence at you asking alot of repectful, properly worded questions, and avoid ones that do. After all its your $$$ and a outfitter will cost you at the least $3000 to as much as $10,000 for a fully guided hunt lasting about five to seven days at best. Get as many ph#s from past cliants as you can, especially ones that DID NOT wind up killing a bull, as unsuccessfull hunters will often give you a better evaluation of a outfitter than ones that killed a nice 6x6 bull.

As far as which rifle to use for ELK, I am a strong as is possable a beleiver in using as powerfull a gun as you can shoot accurately. So i recommend the 30/06 with a good well made bullet in the 180 grain weight range. I personally use a M700 in 338wm with 225 Accubonds, but a 30/06 with a well made bullit will kill any bull on the mountain if you do your part and stay with in the 30/06s limitations when used on elk.
Hope this was helpfull. If you liked more of my input just pm me and I will be happy to ramble on about my favorite game animal.
Arthur.

I am no expert but:

For elk, I use a 7mm win 70 with 160 barnes xlc nikon monarch 2-7x32 and a 30-06 rem 700 with 180 partitions redfield widefield 3-9x40. I use burris dd mounts and like the quake slings.

I agree with others that people spend way too much time debating calibers, etc.... pick rifle you like best in suitable caliber (seems to be 270 or above), good bullets, good mounts/bases, good optics, practice and your good to go. For choosing a caliber, consider how much recoil you can handle and if $ is an issue, how much the ammo costs because it adds up fast.

I have no experience with guides and have always done DIY hunts but would spend your time researching this area the most. I have been successful with DIY and am able to go with people who have experience (best option for beginner IMO).

I found reading several books by former guides very beneficial. I really enjoy elk hunting. Have fun.

Dawn:

Thr first comment that I will make is that I think you are asking the wrong questions, because any of those rifles will work. Shooting and killing an elk is the easiest part of the process, so as previously stated, you should take the rifle that you are most comfortable with. Finding an elk is the most difficult part and then getting it out is the next most difficult thing. You should be concentrating on learning how to find elk.

I'm not sure that anyone who has hunted elk for long will comfortably call themselves an expert. I've killed 30 elk since 1978 and I certainly don't consider my self an expert.

ART338 has written some very good advise and I will add an article that I wrote to respond to questions from new elk hunters.

I get an elk every year. Sometimes I get both a cow and a bull. My hunting buddies rarely get an elk and one guy asked me why. I replied that there are no secrets to hunting elk. You already know what you have to do to be successful. But most people won't or can't do what it takes to be successful.

You have to hunt throughout the entire year. You should be engaged in something relating to hunting all the time; reading, studying, gear maintenance, shooting, scouting, etc.

You have to hunt every day of the entire season. You should arrive at camp no later than the day before opening day and don't leave until the day after the last day of the season. You can't expect to be successful if you hunt on just the weekend or if you hunt for just part of the season.

You have to hunt all day. The most productive times to hunt are just after dawn and just before sunset. So if you want to hunt during those times you have to do most of your hiking to and from the truck, in the dark. Stay in the field for the entire day. Don't go back to camp for lunch.

You have to learn to think like an elk. Pretend that you are an elk and you know that hunters are trying to kill you. Then go to the places and do the things that you need to do to avoid getting killed. That's how you find elk.

You have to hunt the places that others won't or can't. Get away from the roads and hunt in the mean nasty hollows, where it's hard to get into and hard to get out of.

Hunt where the elk are. 75% of the elk live in 25% of the available suitable habitat. You need to find out where that 25% area is and spend your time there.

Once you've committed to do all that, you can employ the following strategies.

ELK HUNTING STRATEGIES

Rule#1: Be safe with your rifle. Assume that any firearm is loaded unless the breech is open and you can see that it's empty. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction and never point your rifle at anything unless you intend to shoot it. Don't rely on the safety. Carry your rifle with the chamber empty and the safety on. Don't chamber a round until you spot a target. Never shoot at a target unless you are sure what it is, sure you can hit it and sure of what's behind it.

Rule #2: Be proficient with your rifle. Always make a clean, quick, humane kill. In order to do this you must be proficient with your rifle. No matter how good you have been in the past, you need to practice several times each summer to ensure that you are current. Don't just sight in your rifle. You must practice to ensure that your rhythm is smooth and habitual and you can hit what you aim at. Practice at 200 yards and 300 yards so that you can determine in the field, if you should take that shot. Also, get off the bench and practice in the prone position resting your rifle on a daypack and also in the sitting position. There never seems to be a bench rest in the field just where you want it.

Guideline #1: Be in good shape. Altitude sickness is a real concern in the mountains. You need to be in good cardio/vascular condition to deal with it. Also, everyone must do their share and you can't do that if you can't hike the hills, and haul out your share of the game, collect firewood, carry water, setup & break down camp, etc. If you are in bad physical condition, then you will be miserable and you will not enjoy the adventure. It's really endurance breathing that you need to develop before you arrive at high elevation. Bicycling, climbing stairs, swimming and high altitude hiking are excellent exercises for this purpose. Also drink lots of liquids in order to minimize the effects of dehydration and Acute Mountain Sickness. By the way, alcohol and caffeine are not good liquids to drinks because they are diuretics and you will end up even more dehydrated.

Guideline #2: Scout, Scout, Scout. You need to know your hunting area like your back yard. Don�t expect to travel to Colorado and be successful the first year. Pick an area and hunt that same area year after year. That�s how to get to know your hunting grounds. Take several camping/hiking trips and several backpack trips into your hunting area each summer. Know where their winter range is, where their summer range is and where the migration routes are that connect the two. Know where the game trails are concentrated crossing saddles on ridges, where the bedding areas are, where the water holes are, where the hideouts are. Take a couple of long hikes where you expect to find game, just before the season opens.

Buy US Forest Service maps, USGS maps, county maps and BLM maps of your area. These maps contain different information. Copy this information onto the USGS maps. You can only reasonably hunt the area on one USGS 7.5' map. But as luck would have it, the best hunting area is usually where several maps come together. Tape the maps together. Memorize your map. Update it with field data from your scouting trips. You now have a map containing information in a way that no one else has.

Guideline #3: Hunt where the elk are: Seventy-five percent (75%) of the elk live in twenty-five percent (25%) of the available habitat. You can waste a lot of time hunting unproductively in an area where there is always some thin sign but never enough sign to indicate the presence of a large herd. Sure there�s the off chance that by pure dumb luck you might encounter a lonesome elk and every year someone gets lucky and fills their tag that way. But your best probability of success will be in the vicinity of the large herds. You scouting goal is to discover where that 25% hotbed is located. When you find that area it�s hard to miss. It will stink with elk musk and urine, there will be heavily used game trails in every direction, the grass will be cropped short, there will be lots fresh elk droppings and you can hear elk scurrying away just beyond in the trees.

Guideline #4: Hunt the right elevation for the migration: Elk accomplish an annual migration, spending the summer at higher elevation and spending the winter in some sheltered place, usually at lower elevation. In Colorado's 1st and 2nd rifle season, most elk will be found at higher elevations in mixed aspen/evergreen groves, with lots of grass and forbs for food. They can travel a long way for water. Look for them to start moving down their migration routes in the 3rd season.

Elk will wait as long as they can before being forced to migrate by bad weather. They will go back up if it warms. So if weather in the 3rd season is warm and dry, then look for them up high. Mule deer will migrate sooner and faster than elk. One day of really bad weather and deep snow, will result in lots of deer in the sage where the day before there wasn't an animal to be found. Deer usually stay down once they have migrated. In the late seasons elk can often be found in rancher�s pastures.

When the weather is warm, there will always be a few elk spread out throughout their entire range. So the population density (elk/square mile) is less dense and your chance of bumping into an elk is low. I hunt the 3rd rifle season and hope for heavy snow and bad weather to drive them out of the high country. They will concentrate in the foothills, at the bottom of the snow line. Since they are concentrated, the population density is higher and your chance of seeing an elk is improved.

Guideline #5: Use hunting pressure to your advantage. I hunt an area on opening morning where there is good vehicle access and lots of other hunters. I hunt in the places where I think the animals will run to avoid the opening day hunters. Most hunters will stay within a mile or so of a road. A few others will horse pack in five miles, usually more. So it's good to get back in 2 or 3 miles before the sun comes up and hunt the in-between areas.

Guideline #6: Hunt bedding areas at dawn. Elk like to bed down in isolated, gently sloping groves of mixed aspen/evergreens with lots of grass and forbs for food. They can travel a long way for water. Isolated means someplace where it�s difficult for people to access. Find several places like this when you go scouting. Hike in the dark to arrive at an overlook before the sun comes up and wait to see what comes out of the grove.

Guideline #7: Hunt the ridges at midday. Setup overlooking a saddle on a ridge where game trails are concentrated and wait to see what walks by. This takes lots of patience and works best if you have somebody stealth hunting through the dark timber to get the animals moving.

Guideline #8: Hunt the water holes in the afternoon. Find some isolated water source, maybe the highest place where a creek first starts coming out of the ground. Setup concealed from view, with a good field of fire 100 to 200 yards away, at least 3 hours before sunset, and wait to see what comes to drink. Wait until the very last shooting light is gone before going back to camp. I have field dressed a lot of animals in the dark using a flashlight.

Guideline #9: Hunt the hideouts late in the season. Elk know that someone is trying to kill them as soon as the first shot is fired. So they run and hide in the most inaccessible terrain around. Find some cozy little pocket surrounded by the meanest, nastiest country around; a place where it looks like there's no way that an elk could get in there; a place where you would hate to get an animal down because you would hate to have to haul him out. That's where the elk will be and that's where you should be (and where I will be) late in the season.

Guideline #10: Be persistent. You can't catch fish unless you have your bait in the water and you can't find an elk unless you are in the field looking for them. They're not going to walk up and surrender themselves to you. You have to find them. That's why they call it hunting and not killing. Many hunters give up after a couple of unsuccessful days and go home. Be prepared to stay the entire length of the season and to endure whatever fatigue and weather, you may encounter. Hunt an area for several days and if you don't find anything promising, then try a different strategy or different area, but don't give up.

Guideline #11: Be patient. Human beings are noisy, stinky creatures. Our dominant sense is our vision. The elk's best senses are their smell and hearing. Their vision is motion sensitive and they can't see colors. Many young hunters spend lots of time hiking and covering a lot of ground and wonder why they never see any animals. You should spend most of your time sitting quietly and watching. You should hike slowly and quietly and most of your hiking should be in the dark.

Finally I will add my 2� to the discussion regarding outfitters. I think the biggest problem when using an outfitter/guide is that clients expect more than the outfitter can deliver. Many people expect that an outfitter/guide will be able to put them onto a big bull and they will be dissapointed if that doesn't happen. Your chance of getting a big bull on public land with an outfitter is no better than anyone else who knows the country. So it's probably not a bad idea to use an outfitter for your first hunt to get aquainted with elk hunting techniques but don't expect that paying those big $$$ are going to ensure that you will kill an elk.

Good luck and safe hunting.

KC