Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire another Mark V catastrophe

Yuck, poor thing. She one of the Mark V victims?

You can have the blown up Mark V . BTW I shoot recurves to, you would like mine.

Odds are greater I'll be eaten by a shark while getting struck by lightning.

Mossberg looks with a Weatherby pedigree?

Yep, I know. That was the scoop years ago when I bought them.

Funny I never heard that about the 788.

Not bashing, I have a Mk V.

The Mark V has 9 small and thin lugs (magnum chamberings) and 6 lugs (standard chamberings). They have decent surface contact area in the receiver, but I've always wondered whether the shear area is enough.

I would imagine how well the lugs mate with the action recess would be the determining factor.

You can have two larger lugs, in relation, that mate perfectly and have far more surface area than nine that are poorly mated.

QC is king in this type of deal.

I don't see letting high pressure stressed action parts "getting a run at one another" being a good idea.

That is pure armchair theory on my part, much like putting a long squishy recoil pad on a serious rifle as being a big mistake.

Long story longer. I recommend to anyone that has doubts about the Mark V read Stuart Otteson's Books "The Bolt Action". These are the best I know form and engineering stand point books that have ever been placed in print. I personally do not care for any push feed action for hunting, but will admit that for strength some of these actions have it all over the CFR actions that many of us love for hunting. They (some of them) can be made much more accurate than any CRF action in this world. I just don't care to own any for hunting.

I can relate one Weatherby ammo and factory rifle failure of my own knowledge and research into the events and I might say due to my own efforts the avoidance of a law suit of the Company I was employed by at the time.

We at that time period were the largest Weatherby dealer in the USA. We out sold all other dealers by a wide margin. The year we had the then brand new Weatherby Vanguards for sell, we did a large volume business.

During the first sells of this Vanguard rifle they were chambered for the .300 Winchester ctg and not for the .300 Weatherby ctg.

I had brought to me in the gun shop a rifle and a story. It seems the customer bough a Vanguard rifle one day and returned two weeks later and bought a box of ammo. He told the clerk that he had bought a Weatherby .300 just two weeks before in the same shop and needed a box of ammo to test fire the rifle. Liam and his side kick Elmer took the rifle out to there neighborhood shooting/dump and after preliminary trials finding a piece of short 2x4 to use as a chambering assist devise proceeded to chamber the .300 Weatherby ctg in the .300 Winchester chamber. It did take some effort on the twosomes part but seeing as how the rifle was new and everybody knows how new stuff can be, they thought nothing of the effort (probably thinking it would loosen up with use) First shot out of the box Liam reflecting on the effort thought it best to let his best buddy Elmer to take the honor of the first shot. I don't know how long the two intrepid sports fans spent finding that vary same 2X4 to help easy the effort of opening and in preparation for that vary important second shot, never the less the effort was soon rewarded and now Liam was in full readiness for that all important second shot.

Unfortunately the Gods of steel and design no longer smiled on their efforts and the rifle went through rather sudden changes. The stock made of wood in those day came apart in several pieces and the floor plate/trigger guard found are intrepid friend Liam's forearm. Liam and Elmer after reflection gathered up the as sundry pieces of the add for mentioned rifle and directly returned in from the dump, looking for blood and the dumb folks that sold him the bad Weatherby rifle.

They were in a rather peculiar position of being unable to get the bolt open to show the store owner the bad offending Weatherby ctg that was the cause of all this misfortune as they had lost the ejected 2X4 and was unable to open the bolt. I had no difficulty what so ever opening said bolt mounted in a stout bench vise and with the manly use of a six foot cheater bar on the bolt handle. Surprise of all, melted in the bolt face of said action was melted the the fact that he did use a Weatherby ctg in a .300 Winchester chambered rifle.


As to the Mark V, sure are a lot of shooters that shoot some mighty hot BR stuff through that action and have done so for a great many years.

I doubt seriously that you'll have any issues in those calibers.

MM

intrepid fools, but fools none the less!

Yeah, that's comforting, but it's hard to get that picture out of my head.

I think you'll be OK. Wanna buy my .340? It'll be sitting in a nice McMillan as soon as it shows up.

Not that I'd know much about Metalurgy,.......or Metal Fatigue,
or machining
or Chit,.....from bean dip.

when only 2 - 2 1/2 lugs outta' 9 show a bearing surface, that established with old school "Prussian Blue", and for us younger types ,"Dykem",........the basic mechanism of failure looks obvious.

The lugs give up 1 or 2 at a time,.....when there's only a couple left,

.............things go bad.

Rocket Science ?

NOT

GTC

And therein lies the problem.........I don't have or want any Wby's but if I did, I'd definitely be checking lug contact & headspace.

MM

A while back I was talking to a well know smith and action maker about action strengths and I beleive he said the bolt on a Weatherby would come out of the rifle at 115000 psi!

The Remmy 700/721/722/725 have always been considered stronger than the Mk 5. The strongest non-custom action is supposedly the forged Japanese Arisaka.

However, on ANY modern bolt rifle the barrel is supposed to bulge/burst before the action gives. IIRC, I think barrels are designed to fail around 135,000 PSI and actions around 200,000 PSI.

Of course, if there is an obstruction just forward of the bolt, then you're in trouble no matter what you shoot.

Based on velocity, I've never seen any Weatherby factory ammo that would even come close to that.

My weak push feed M70, which shows about 70% lug contact, digests 130gr .270 Roy loads, of the factory and handloaded guise, that reach 3500fps with ease.

Yeah, I think they are hot. I'd guess Weatherby does also, when you look at the down-speeding of factory loads over the years

Dangerous? I'm not convinced of that yet.

That said, I will defer to Mr. Howell's greater experience should rifles start blowing up regularly.

Any 3-4 of the touted " 9 locking lugs" can be failed,.....without showing any visual sign.

You're not going to "pop" them off during routine cleaning and maintenance,.......

I have seperated a few "Locking Lugs" with a brisk twist of a screwdriver.( Don't Panic, most of these "Sporters" built on captured Nazi Rifles are but a whisker stronger)

........Roy Weatherby was a lot better promoter, than engineer.

I think that I'd best point out what Doc seems to be getting at,
is that the fundamental concept of having "9 Locking Lugs" bearing, simultaneously,.....is really a dreamy sorta' engineering marvel, as opposed to someting do-able.

Cryin' out loud, it's hard enough to get 2 or 3 to bear,......fully loaded.

Brand Loyalty be damned,....it's a weak, and coincidentally VERY easily Manufactured action design.

Pardon me all to hell placing longevity , and strength over the ease of Corporate opperations.


GTC

Most cartridges are in the 55000-65000 psi range I believe,not real sure where weatherby tops out at!

So in essence we don't really know what hppened, or truly caused this failure, we can only conjecture. I had a Mark V for many years in 7MM Wby. I wore the barrel out at about 2800 rounds. It was the best rifle I've ever owned. Made in Japan, blued synthetic model. Remember a few years ago when a Sako blew up in someone's face? Where I lived at the time ALL Sako and Tikka's were recalled. That burp did not stopped many folks from using them, or extolling their virtues here on the "fire." I'm not convinced the Mark V is a piece of junk at this point anyway, and if I could afford one right now I would buy one and use it without hesitation.