Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles ok whats the difference in the 300 wsm and 30-06

The Kimber WSM I bought felt better in my hands than the 06 from the same manufacturer. I hunt with a soft 180 at mild speeds and it is just fine, let 3 walk on Saturday at 13 yards. You want to hunt deer with a 9.5 pound 375 Ultramag/5x25x56 S&B, perfectly fine, no problem for me...but YOU tote it!

First off, there aint nothing wrong with loaded your 25 with good bullets and just using it. Make no doubt about it if you do your job it'll do yours. And if you screw the pooch with it you'll need track shoes. And, the same goes for the 06 and the 300 shorty or any other round for that matter. Killing is down with placement and wrecking tissue important for sustained life.

But if you're really jonesing for a new rig that's all good as well.

I guess I look at the 06 vs the 300 shorty like this. And this is only my way and no way does it need be anyone elses.

I can have 4/5 down in the 06 and 2/3 down in the WSM depending on how its set up.

With the 300 I can run a 180 @ 2950 and with the 06 I can run a 168 @ 2950. So I guess that might make people wonder is the idea of bumping up another 15 or so grains and getting the same speed really worth it...? Some might say yes and to some it won't be. Personally I feel it'd take killing about 6 ark fulls of game with each to see if there was ever a diff. I don't think there is but that's just my way.

I would not buy the Mod 7 in a WSM, no way no how and that is based off being around 3 of them in 300 that were at their best single shots cause they fed so incredibly bad! I loved how they felt as they're seductive lil rigs but I'd pass on them.

The T3 will feed I think the best of any of the WSM's day in and day out. And it's about as light as they come as well.

The Big Sky (which you didn't mention) is a good one but I cannot like the perch bellly nor am I true fan of the action. Though they've certainly gotten better but they still feel tinny to me, kind of a shovel +P. And at least now they feed ok. But that's all moot points as you didn't ask for info on this one so sorry for the rabbit trail. Now the up and coming 84L in an 06 is gonna be a player and about a pound lighter.

Best of luck to ya, I'd say just take your 25/06 and stoke it with 115 Nozlers.

Dober

Hate to say it, but Republicans are just as bad...

I totally agree with your assertion that magnums aren't needed by many who have them. You can't have too many '06s... 2 of my 7 centerfires are chambered in the Springfield, and 3 of 'em are based on the '06 case.

Walk into some ma and pa store out west and you're a lot more likely to find 30-06 ammo than just about anything else. You can't go wrong with that cartridge... and if I were you, I'd spend the money on a CRF Model 70 featherweight.

On the other hand, shoot whatever you like; if its a 300 WSM more power to ya.

The beautiful thing about this country is choice... at least for now .

The way I see it, the difference is about 13 gr of water capacity. About 11 if you use commercial 30-06 brass.

If you only buy factory ammo, the 300 WSM is a solid 200-300 fps ahead of the 30-06.

If you handload, and aren't averse to warming up the 30-06 a bit, then the 30-06 is only about 100-150 fps behind the 300 WSM.

Remember the 300 WSM is loaded to around 65K lbs-psi. The 30-06 is loaded to around 58K.

I typically load my 30-06 to around 62K or so, as interpreted via a chronograph, and Quickload velocity/pressure correlations.

A lot of folks poo-poo that approach as hazardous, yet they may not consider that 65K is SAAMI standard for such rounds as the 270 Win, and 25-06 Rem.

As far as action length and magazine capacity goes, that's mostly personal preference. There are always aftermarket DBM systems to increase capacity. I don't see any great advantage to the short action over the long myself. I kinda favor the Remmy long action magazine for the latitude it offers in oal.

MontanaMarine, FWIW, thank you for your service.

Thanks. I never really know what to say to that. I kinda feel like it was a priveledge to have served.

"just "pile on" disparaging attempts to intimidate discent like a bunch of kids or Democrats on TV?...Hate to say it, but Republicans are just as bad..."

efw, I understand what you mean, it does sorta look that way at times but I disagree to some small extent. But, unlike the immature ankle nippers attacking me for simply holding a different opinion, respect demands that I attempt to expain WHY I disagree!

It is obviously true that both parties yammer at each other quite often. But, the big difference I see is that the Repubs usually state a point, or a few points, on which they disagree. Dems NEVER do that, they invariably sneer at and try to slime those who disagree with them as stupid, ignorant, uncaring, "in the pocket of big interests", indifferent to the "poor", greedy, mean, selfish, etc. It's hard to "argue" with such silliness on any rational basis! And, it seems that all the Dems - and local ankle nippers - really seek is to intimadate and depress disscent, not win an intelligent argument. But I don't intimidate easily, I've had serious shots taken at me from far brighter opponents.

My primary goal in continuing on this has not been to accomplish anything with my attackers, doubt that's possible, but to encourage any others who have been, or might be, hesitant to speak out from fear of such attacks; just don't let the foolishness get under your skin, stick to the subject and a sound defense is easy enough! So, my "pile on" statement, etc. stands. I would suggest anyone re-read the posts attacking me and the opinion that prompted it all. Others here - like you - responded intelligently. That IS the proper thing to do!

Fact is, most of these attacks have been a fun thing for me; it's like being in a butt-kicking contest with a group of one-legged guys! An amusing activity for sure but winning has little satisfaction, it's just too easy!


--------------------

Mr. Marine, personally, I think it's best to just say, "Thank you, it was an honor and privilige to serve."

And, after all, the freedom for people to be as foolish as they wish, and in safety, was one of the things that called us into that service, right? And all them stripes indicate you did a fine job for a long time girene, Semper Fi! (That's said in respect, my suit was a much safer blue and I only earned half your stripes! )

You can get pretty close to 300 WSM power from an 06 using various High energy and light magnum factory loads.

I love the 30-06 and I was in the Marine Corp long enough ago that I carried one of the damn things but when folks start talking about red-lining it in order to achieve what would be moderate performance from another cartridge, I'm gonna go with the bigger cartridge if that's the performance I need.
The '06 can stand on it's own merit. Why try to make it something it's not? Like the current trend to try to make a .243 out of a .223.
What drives this whole debate is how far away can you kill something. Has anyone thought about getting closer? Does that $300 worth of scent proof camo really confound the animal when you're sitting in the truck 500 lasered yards away?

The 45-70, 30-30, among other old-timers, are made into something they weren't. most folks happily accept the improvements.

Somehow, updating 30-06 performance by running up pressure to equal other cartridges based on the 30-06, brings a lot of negative reaction.

If you want something else that's cool. But to believe the 30-06 has to live at 308 performance levels when it has roughly 30% more case volume than the 308 shows a lack of understanding of internal ballistics.

Interesting concept. I always thought in terms that the .308 was trying to live up to 30-06 standards. Whether it's a standard or a magnum cartridge I don't like to motor my rifles at the top end. Rarely are the results good. And the bad results seem to come at the most embarassing times. One has to ask, how do you know when you have reached 65K in your 30-06? I don't have that sort of eq. And too, in my 30-06s, to a rifle, anytime I have tried to over-drive them, shall we say, the groups have gone to sheet. And I don't mean by a little bit. I'm talking pray and spray.

Have yet to see my first rifle,that didn't like to be run with slack in the reins.

Even someone as dumb as you,know that'd encompass alot more than a whole damned bunch.

(Then some)...............

I have an old Speer manual that lists loads that are way above the loads in the current manuals, and I have never run into problems by working up a load to near maximum from that old Speer manual. One I can think of off the top of my head is a 180 grain BTSP in a 300 WM with IMR4350. The starting load in the Old Speer manual is 2 grains higher than the top load in several other newer manuals. My load was 4 grains higher than the max load listed in the newer manuals, and still very safe, and the manual I was using listed a load 2 grains higer than I used. I was getting 3140 ft/sec with a 180, and 5/8" groups, so I settled on that for moose. It works! I've never yet squeezed one off hunting where something hasn't died on its way to the ground. Brass life has been good.

A lot of my 30-06 loads have been near the top end over the years, and I have brass that I have used 8-10 times with no problems. Now, I am not getting 2900 ft/sec out of a 180 gr, but I was getting 2800 plus, and I am easily getting 2900 out of 168 TSX's.

Just before I bought my 300 WM, I seriously considered a WSM. I opted for the longer version because I thought it held more potential, and I still do. If I couldn't get the 300WM, I would likely have just stayed with the 30-06, and after 8 years with the WM, I returned to a 30-06 and am loving it. Still got the WM, and absolutely no flies on it, but that '06 calls my name in the night.

I could get 2800fps with a 165gr bullet (me and everybody else) but if I went over that by much, my groups suffered.
IIRC, Speer was one of the last companies to use pressure measuring eq to determine their max loads. They used empirical methods, ie bolt lift, primer appearance, case measurments, on the theory that it was what their customers used so they should also.
I have found that a .300 Savage and a 7-08 will kill a deer very dead.