Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 308, RL17, 200 gr bullet

Thanks. Would like to see what a typical 165 would have done in those winds. Bet the 200s do relatively well in the wind. Also, definitely good energy down range. I'll have to play with it in my 308.

Sure seems like you are trying to make excuses and rationalize overloading.

The real difference between the companies and individuals is that they pressure test loads and stop when they get to the SAAMI pressure limits, individual reloaders often don't.

I'd love to be able to shoot 200gr bullets at 2650 out of my 308's, I'm just not willing to overload the round to do so, I have bigger guns that can do it safely...................................DJ

OK, tell me how much pressure you think I'm generating, and how you calculated it.

I'm not making excuses for anything. I'm answering your remarks.

All I'm doing is relating my findings, with particlars included, for my rifle.

I wish I owned a strain gauge. Anybody here know where one is purchased, and how much they cost?

An image of the brass from the ten rounds tested. Note sooted necks and primers not flattened at all. Consistent with normal to low pressure.

That is old brass with 20 or so loads already through it. It doesn't look pristine for that reason.

Danger comes when you hit peak pressure that is higher than SAAMI max. Most powders hit peak pressure early on, and then quickly drop down from there as the bullet travels the length of the barrel. RL17 holds that peak pressure longer within the bore as the bullet travels down, meaning that you can load to a lower peak pressure and still maintain high velocities because of the greater area under the pressure curve compared to conventional powders. I would love to see pressure data with regards to velocities achieved with RL17 at the same peak pressure other powders are loaded to.

Spot on.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

a friend of mine has one, he likes to play around with stuff like that. I've been meaning to get around to trying it with some of my rifles one day.

Neat idea, but for my purposes, watching brass life especialy primer pockets does fine.

For what you are doing I think it would be a great tool, once you figured out how to reasonably read and apply the data it produces.

I've ran pressure up to visible signs with a number of bullet/powder combinations.

With Win brass I usually see primer flattening, and ejector marks where pressure calcs at about 65K via Quickload pressure/velocity correlations.

With RL17, I'm getting velocity that correlates to 70-72K pressure, but without any signs. In fact the signs point to normal to low pressure.

RL17 with it's retarded and flattened pressure peak allows the bullet a little more of a running start before pressure peaks. This reduction of inertia, along with a longer "push" at peak pressure is part of the equation, IMHO.

Bottom line is, that one goes as far as the individual rifle will allow as far as pressure goes. Once any small pressure signs with bolt lift and or primers and or shiny case heads are evident, back off a grain and call that as maximum for the rifle and live with the velocity results.

I haven`t tried RL17 using the 200-210 grainers in my 300 WSM carbine as of yet, but have received 2818 fps using 68 gr of RL19 with a 200 A/B.

If I were to "ONLY" get 2850 fps from a 16.5" barrel using the RL17 and a 200 gr bullet, then I would just have go cry somewhere!..........Waaa! Waaa!

MM,

Thanks for posting your results with this combo. 4 friends and I are all getting excellent accuracy and velocity with this powder and RL 17. Ive settled on 48.3 seated to 2.925 for 2600 fps. 9.6 mils to 1008 yards, 300ASL, 5" groups. That bullet hits the steel considerably harder at 1k than the 178 and is affected soo much less. Its turned the 308 into another cartridge really.

JimD.

Here's the factory load data:

Reloader's Guide
Alliant Powder Reload Recipes


Recipe(s)


Caliber Bullet Case Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Notes
308 Winchester Speer 150 gr BTSP Federal 2.8 22 Fed 210 Reloder 17 50 2,763 -
308 Winchester Speer 165 gr BTSP Federal 2.8 22 Fed 210 Reloder 17 50 2,739 -
308 Winchester Speer 180 gr BTSP Federal 2.8 22 Fed 210 Reloder 17 48.7 2,641 -


Basically your load EXCEEDS BY 2 GRAINS the factory MAXIMUM load listed for a bullet 35! GRAINS LIGHTER!

Sorry but you just don't know what pressures you are running until you actually pressure test them. I really think this is a perfect example of how case pressure signs can be misleading.

If the factory listed maximum load for 165gr bullets is 50grains. 52grains with a 200gr bullet ISN'T A SAFE PRESSURE LOAD!

I don't mean to be a jerk here, I'm just trying to be a freindly voice of reason. MM you normally have seemed to be a pretty solid rational guy I can't beleive that after you have time to really think about it going above the factory listed max load by this much is safe reloading practice.

Good luck, I hope you keep your eyesight and fingers.................................DJ

Shane-I would be VERY interested to know some of your results with the heavies in the 708. Either here, or perhaps you could start a new topic. You could give us all a starting point.

yukonal, have a read here:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1367024&page=1



djpaintless, if you are interested, check out some of these results with the 308 and 208/210s with RL17, you'll see I'm not the Lone Ranger:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1299481&page=1

I'm over book a good ways on my 30-06 load too. Nosler Fifth Edition lists 58.0gr RL22 as max for the 200 partition. I'm running 61.0 gr RL22 with the moly'd 208 AMax. QL calcs my pressure as 62K. My soft Norma brass has 40+ reloads (neck-sizing only) and primer pockets are still good to go.

I appreciate your concern. I am operating within my comfort zone. I'm not telling anyone to run out and duplicate my loads. I only know they are fine in my rifle, with my components, and that's all I'm relating to anyone interested.

DJ,

SAAMI pressure standards are just that, standards and guidelines. As an engineer I know two things, everything has a healthy factor of safety built in (hence the use of proof loads to see where the real breaking point is), and the pressure point for cartridges has more to do with the metallurgy and powders available when the cartridge was introduced than anything else.

Hence, the 6.5X55 and 260 rem have different pressures when the cases are not that different, and the 30-06 and 25-06 and 280 and 270 and 35 whelen have different pressures on virtually the same case, etc., etc. and on and on.

Bottom line: When I get back to the world, I'm trying RL17 and some moly'd Berger 210 VLDs and moly'd 208 grain AMAXs in my heavy barreled Savage, and I'm betting I'll end up right where MM is load wise.

MM - thanks for the link to the Hide. That's good stuff right there.....

dj, no your not coming over as a jerk.

Having some hands-on with this powder in the 308 case, I'll venture a guess that the charges listed by Alliant are all the powder they could fit in virgin Federal brass, and still seat the bullet to 2.80" without distorting the bullet tip.

I also noted that Alliant didn't provide any pressure data for the loads listed on their website.

Considering RL17 was developed for the WSM family, you will have to try pretty hard to get overpressure in a 308 case. I'd guess impossible with a 165gr projectile. I don't think you could enough powder in there to make it happen.

I'm cramming as much as possible in the cases, and that's under 200 gr bullets at 2.81" oal.

A few factors in my rifle/methods do reduce pressure and increase powder capacity:

- Using Win brass which is a bit roomier than most.
- Only neck-sizing to preserve a bit more case volume.
- moly. ( not on the SGKs, but my rifle bore is VERY seasoned in the stuff)
- I have a factory Rem chamber and throat. Which means a bigger combustion chamber, and a running start to the lands.

Not to get your post off topic Shane, but I'm seeing solid 200fps gains with R-17 compared to my R-22 load in my 243AI/w my moly'd 105Amax's......this '17 is some good stuff. My vanilla 243 is showing great things with '17 and moly'd 90gr SciroccoII's as well. I enjoy reading your "experiment" posts, keep it up!!!

As an aside, have you been able to "tweak" quickload for what you think are more accurate pressure results?