Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 220 Swift and primer question

I have a ruger MKIII in 220 swift.

I am working up a load with the Sierra 52gr HPBT and W760.

Using NEW cases and WLR primers.

I shot my first batch 37gr of W760 and noticed that the primer had backed out considerably.

I loaded one to 38gr and noticed that the primer is not backed out quite as far.

I don't think this is normal, what's going on? do i need to use a diff powder or something?

Sounds like you've a bit too much headspace and your load is a bit light. Heat up your load some and that will take care of your headspace (I assume you reload and will set your dies up to match the chamber on your rifle)
What is happening (IMO)is when you pull the trigger, the firing pin is pushing the cartridge forward (headspace)and the ignition of the primer is backing the primer out but your charge is not stout enough to elongate the case and push it back against the face of the bolt reseating the primer. A hotter load will extrude the case so it is a fit to your chamber and your headspace problem will go away.

Stillbeeman sounds right on...the same thing can happen with ANY caliber or rifle.

I've had 5 Swifts over 40 years including one old tang model Ruger and one "new" MKII...ALL those Swifts shoot best right around 5% plus or minus the top loads listed in the different manuals and shot best with Nosler BT's or Horn V-Max's 50 grainers...Sierra was always close and was as explosive as the V-Max's for the most part.

You HAVE to adjust your sizing die for minimum shoulder set back or use Redding Competition shell holders...you only want 0.001-0.002" shoulder setback on the case.

The best dies I've found to use are Redding Type S bushing full length, and Redding Competition shell holders, I use them all the time for many different calibers...I also have a set of Redding Competition dies for the 220 Swift but can't see any difference in accuracy loading with either set and the bushing dies are about 1/3 the cost.

The best way to do this is start with NEW brass, a 50 gr bullet seated INTO the lands about 0.015" to be certain ALL the slop is taken out and the base is snug against the bolt face...a 35gr load of Varget or RL-15 would work great.

Buy yourself a set of Hornady headspace gauges and bullet overall lenghth gauges and you will be well on your way to keeping the headspace on ALL your rifle within tight tolerances.

Do a search on this forum, Accurate Reloading and 6mm BR...I have posted lots of information related to this problem and how to "benchrest" prep your rifle system...so has many other people. Search for "headspace", "benchrest preping", and so forth, there is tons of information on how to do it...DON'T look for 220, 220 Swift, or Swift per se as this narrows you search parameters...what you are experiencing is not related specifically to a rifle, caliber or brand...it is related to headspace and how to adjust it by adjusting your dies to fit your particular rifle/caliber/chamber.

As long as you keep the pressures down the barrel will last as long as ANY hi-velo round like the 22-250, or AI, 220 Jaybird, 22-243 Midd etc.

I never really hot rodded my Swifts, or 22-250's as I had a 22-243 and 17 Rem handy when I had the need for speed, but barrel life of 2500-3000 for <.500" is real, although one rifle was still going strong a almost 5000 rounds of 50 gr Nos and Horn at 3850-3900 fs.

For the most part I used H380 and BLC-2, IMR4320 and 4064 in the old days, then switched to Benchmark, RL-15, and Varget when they came out...and AA2700. I also like Fed 205 Match primers.

I never used much W760 for bullets lighter than 55 gr, but W760, RL-19, 4350, 4831 all worked well for 60-70 gr. W760 or IMR 4350 with Speer 70 gr gave the highest velocity and accuracy in all the different Swifts as far as heavy bullets went.

The same bullet worked as well on deer as any larger caliber within 250 yds or so, as long as I used head shots or placed the bullet right...I wouldn't recommend ANY 22 cal for deer/antelope unless you can shoot well enough to hit a squirrel/beer can/clay bird at the range you expect to hunt/shoot.

I still have the hardly used Redding Competition dies and 5-6 boxes of Hornady loaded rounds, but the MKII and bushing dies are long gone...traded/hocked for something else I had to have at the time. You will be happy with yours...I was with all mine over the years.

I keep thinking I will do a 220 Swift barrel just so I can use up all the components I still have and get some more use out of the dies but other projects keep getting in the way. Hahahahahahah

Good luck

Heat is the enemy of any rifle, not just the hyper velocity rounds. When I shoot Pdogs, I use 2 rifles and I still wait 1 minute by a watch between shots and rotate rifles every five shots. Your rifle should never get so hot that you can't pick it up by the barrel. (which is hard to do with 100 Pdogs out there hollering "shoot me next, shoot me next".

Heat kills barrels for sure and large capacity cases produce heat much quicker than small capacity cases.

Heavy barrels heat up slower but also cool off just as slowly. The barrel size arguement is so much hot air as far as I've found shooting the way I do. I used a pump sprayer for a while but never liked squirting water in/on a warm barrel so I just shoot one or two shots then grab another something good. I get shots from almost reach out with a baseball bat, to very tiny in a 35x scope.

Always a big hoohaa about barrel size, dia, weight, length etc. I don't know why because each has it's own parameters that it lives in best so why argue the nitpicks...just males having to whizz on something all the time.

I carry at least two pistols, always a 22LR plus a bolt pistol, 223 or 7-08...at least 3 rifles and most of the time 4-5.

They all are configured differently...some have small dia barrels and smaller cals, they get the most use because they cool quicker and will handle poodles and squirrels out as far as I can see them.

22-243, 6mm/284, 25-06, all have medium to heavy 26" plus barrels and 20x and higher optics for the extra long shots. Plus I use my heavy game rifles to keep my eye and ranging up to snuff for the particular caliber. Quite a surprise when you touch off a 50 cal after shooting a 17 FB for a while, especially when you're not hanging on tight.

Besides I don't go ratting just to kill rats...there are lots of things to see and learn in between shots. I spend more time observing all nature has to offer than I do pulling the trigger.

Shooting everything in sight will also reduce the population so that next year, and the next one and the next one will have fewer and fewer targets. To my shame, I (and a few others) shot out a very nice meadow over 1 1/2 miles long and half a mile wide that you could almost walk across on the backs of the potguts without touching the ground...in less than 7 years. I shot over 200 rats in one day alone...without moving.

The rancher loved it because his cattle had more to eat, but the coyotes, hawks, and other preditors small and large have all but dissapeared and now mice are running all over the place. The ground is getting harder and harder without the plowing of the rats, due to the packing of the cattle hooves, the winter snows won't sink in as far and I'll bet the grasses will change from good feed too a courser grade as time goes on. I quit shooting there two years ago, but go by three or four times a year to see how the rat population is comming along and I will watch it for another several before I start taking a few now and then.

We all need to be conservationists along with our preditory actions...if not, hunting pressure and the Anti's will run us all down the road.

As NFG mentioned, when using new brass, headspace issues can be a concern. Seating the bullets into the lands on your FIRST firing can help resolve your issues of primers backing out.

For subsequent firings, partially resize your brass so that you get the neck and just bump the shoulder for easy chambering. With brass sized in accordance to your particular chamber, you can adjust your bullet seating depth for best accuracy.

NFG: You have touched upon a lot of things but let me show you the error of YOUR ways in just one regard!
There is a difference in success rates AND barrel weights!
I have Hunted Prairie Dogs every year since the mid 1960's and ONE thing I have learned is that heavier and longer barrels increases ones success ratio (percentage wise) on Prairie Dogs and virtually all other Colony Varmints as well!
ESPECIALLY, when the shooter is shooting, a 220 Swift!
I am currently shooting 6 (six) Varminters in caliber 220 Swift! And have owned and shot MANY more of them in the past 45 years!
Each and every one of them has/had a heavy LONG barrel (some as long as 27 1/4"!) on it - with just oen exception!
I would NOT even consider taking a sporter weight 220 Swift into a high volume Colony Varmint Hunting situation knowing what I know now!
The heavy barrel does so many things for the field Colony Varmint shooter that I don't even know where to begin!
Maybe I will cover just a few of them for now?
One thing that seldom gets mentioned is that your average human 220 Swift shooter will on occassion depress his trigger a little to harshly or a little to quickly - and the heavy weight barrels are more forgiving of this bad habit than are sporter weight Rifles - in other words your shot will be further "adrift" if you have yanked the trigger on a sporter weight Rifle than on a heavy weight Rifle.
The mass of the heavy barrel also provides a "steadier" sight picture and a "steadier Rifle" at the moment of the shot!
The heavier barreled Varmint Rifles (ESPECIALLY those in 220 Swift) more often allow a Varminter to spot his own bullet impact point than when light/short barreled Rifles are used!
This factor is invaluable in the field as it allows a quicker and a more learned (less guessing) follow up shot to be placed when using the heavier barreled Rifle!
And over the decades I have also learned that longer barrels provide "free velocity"!
Free velocity means flatter trajectory and more hits (higher success ratios) and thus, more fun!
No, the barrel size argument is not "hot air" - its a fact of life that longer and heavier barrels provide for more hits afield and for flatter shooting of ones projectiles!
Reconsider your contention that long/heavy barrels ONLY have something to do with where and how YOU urinate!
Puzzling comparison you have inflicted there by the way???
Long live the 220 Swift!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Excessive headspace.

The primer's force is pushing it partway out of the primer pocket. With the lighter loads, you're not even pushing the case head back to the bolt face. With the heavier loads, you are, but probably the case is not sliding back as a unit, it's likely sticking at the shoulder/neck and stretching at the web. Bad deal either way.

What I did with my Swift is load my new brass with 52 grain Speer flat base bucket mouthed hollow points loaded so long they jammed into the rifling. This forces the case head back against the bolt face so any stretching during the first firing occurs at the neck, shoulder, and along the body, rather than having the case stick to the forward part of the chamber and stretch backwards at the web to meet the bolt face .. which is what you're seeing now ... which leads quickly to case head separations. I found a starting load of IMR 4064 to be perfect for this and, lucky me, I got quarter inch 100 yard groups out of the combination. Woo hoo!

Another good bullet would be the 64 grain WW power point. Same idea, ram it into the rifling. (I used these in a .22-250, but the idea is the same.)

Tom

See what I mean...anything and everything that can start a whizzing contests...WILL start one.

Everyone has their own take on every situation...shoot whatever you like, I don't care and some of your arguements can be "shot down" one by one relatively easily, but my intention wasn't to start another mindless hoohaa, it was to point out a few observations and what I do to enjoy the sport. I don't think you can show me anything but what YOU think is the way the cow ate the cabbage...besides it isn't barrel weight per se, but total RIFLE weight that helps with the jitters and jerks.

How your equipment is set up, how you learned to shoot, how much you get to shoot and a whole bunch of other "how you...do things" play a large part in determining your "success" rate and whether or not you give a hoot about some ratio between the number of rounds expended and the number of things you killed. Some hunters need a constant pat on the fanny to get through the day. I get just as much pleasure out of "killing a rock" close by a rat as I do whacking the little "horse leg busting" hole digger.

Enjoy your hunts your way and I will enjoy mine my way...this hunting/shooting business is all subjective anyway, no one has a lock on it...everyone is just as righ/wrong as the next guy.

I've been at this killing game for over 60 years. Been testing suppositions, trying new things, old things, strange things, benchresting, long ranging, building "Tactical rifles", "light weight rifles" doing pistol, rifle, and shotgun etc., long before a lot of these buzzwords existed. It doesn't make me an expert at anything but what I did and what I learned, and I would NEVER try to change anyones mind on anything. I present what I know to be true FOR MY RIFLES AND APPLICATIONS...your results may vary and usually does.

I don't shoot Swifts any more for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is case stretch. In this day and age there are a lot of much better cases to use. I went to a 22-243 Midd about the mid 70's. I also played with the 22-284 and one similar to the 220 Jaybird. I'm not whizzing on the Swift in any manor, shape or form, I just like more up to date cases.

There are just way to many toys out there to play with to get hung up on one. I have at least a dozen "favs" in the rack kept handy, but the rest keep getting recycled into something new and different every few years.

I've shot #1 taper thru full diameter cal barrels, not in 220 Swifts, as long as 32" and as short as 16.5". Wednesday I threaded and chambered a 26" McGowen 50 cal #7LV barrel for use with a Rigby based cartridge of my own design for use in an old Ruger Tang model. The barreled action alone weighs 7 lbs and the stock 2 lbs. I will bob it off and crown at 23.5" and add a 2.5" muzzle brake. I also have a 50 cal, 510 Gibbs (my own design again), 1.35" OD x 32" PacNor cylinder barrel for use with a Savage LA, single loader...the barrel alone weighs 13 plus lbs. I do know a small bit about barrel weight...I also know a long, heavy barreled rifle is a PITA to haul around if you like to walk and you are old and broken down like I am.

I also shoot a Shilen heavy 15", 7-08 XP-100, a #2 taper 22" 7-08 Tang Ruger and a 26" heavy 7mmRM rechambered to 7-08 switch barrel for the Tang Ruger using the same 120 gr Horn V-Max load in all three. I don't see much difference in accuracy for the first 3 shots out of any of the barrels, 3 rounds in a small hole at 100M, but there is a bunch of difference in the velocities, but it's still purple haze out to 250 yrds for any one of them. I use the same stock for the two rifle barrels. Guess which one is the "walk-around" shooter.

There are many roads to travel on and get to the same town. None of which are the "only way to go".

I apologize for hi-jacking this thread and I will leave it here.

sounds like your cases are fireforming to the chamber you have..see if it does this on a reloaded round after neck sizing it only...The fact that one did and one didn't is you first clue.

'15 is your huckleberry and you'll be 39-ish grains when done.

If you can't feel bolt resistance on a sized hull,less it's bullet...you've headspace concerns...............

On a side note, what kind of brass are you using? I have found the newer W-W brass to be far too brittle, and the primer pockets loose, even on unfired brass! I won't use it anymore. R-P brass is much more consistent, IMHO. Seems like, even neck sizing, I'll loose 2-3 pieces per 100 of the W-W brass to cracked necks. Annealing helps, but dosent do anything for the loose primer pockets.

ANDY

NFG: I think you are "over-simplyfying" an already simple fact - heavier Rifles (other things being equal - like scope power, cartridge quality, barrel quality, workmanship and etc) simply shoot better!
Do they not?
Or are you being contrary for contraries sake?
Think of it this way maybe it will become obvious to you - why are there different weight classes in the various Rifle accuracy competitions????
I am surprised that a person with as much experience as you claim to have is not fully aware of this FACT!
By your choice of Rifles I see that you indeed dance to a different drummer - and thats wonderful, BUT it does not give you license to transcend reality!
Whizzing is NOT the point here!
Subjective hypothesis is not objective reality!
Not only YOUR Rifles will shoot better heavier but EVERYONE's Rifles will shoot better.
Its just a fact man - get with reality here!
Heavier Rifles are steadier shooting platforms and have many more traits that add to and enhance accuracy.
Or state your proof otherwise!
Please do get out of your self imposed shell and "try to change some minds" - BUT be aware you have to do so factually and NOT fancifully!
There are indeed certain laws of physics and ballistics that apply to accurate Rifle shooting - and I think they still apply even to your 50 caliber Rigby based cartridges!!!
As far as your 22-284 goes I have seen what that caliber does to a barrel (and HOW QUICKLY it does it!) and believe me when I tell you I would MUCH rather deal with the few foibles that come with shooting 220 Swifts than that overbore, barrel burner!
Yes heavy barrels contribute to ones "success rate" when ACCURACY is being sought and accuracy equals success when shooting Rifles.
And with THAT in mind there is in fact ONLY ONE ROAD to travel on to get to that "accuracy town" you mention, the heavier the barrel the more accuracy one is capable of obtaining!
In my 53 years of Rifle shooting that is one axiom (statement accepted as a basic TRUTH - Websters Dictionary 1986) that I have never had to defend before - I thought EVERYONE accepted that fact!
I guess there always has to be ONE exception?
And I could care less what weight barrel you shoot - but DO NOT try to tell me a sporter weight barrel will shoot as well as a Varmint weight barrel that type thought is only accepted in la-la land!
Simply go do some research on Bench Rest Competition.
In this case, bigger is better.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Get a 6mm eliptical expander ball, and run it through the necks of new brass, THEN set your sizing die to ONLY form 2/3 to 3/4 of the neck, or until the bolt will close snugly but not with great difficulty, providing a false secondary shoulder, the cases will headspace off of that, load them, fire them, then from that point the case will totally fill the chamber, neck size only from that point on... problem solved, had a .308 norma that i had to do this with (8mm instead of 6mm expander of course)

just curious if anyones suggestions fixed this prob, its been a week since it was last replied on.

Posters:

Your all kinda right and kinda wrong....his RIFLE CHAMBER doesn't have a headspace problem...his cartridge CASE has a sizing problem [i.e. UNDERsized].

The headspace engineered into his rifle is very likely accurate and fine...the light[er] loads (as noted) allow the case to stretch a bit excessively (as noted) since the case dimensions are not a tight fit in the chamber. And, as he notes the cases are "new" and does NOT note that said new cases were sized prior to loading, it is as if he is fireforming, albeit with a light load.

As noted, increase capacity and the primer protrusion will likely go away...