Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Somehow I missed these changes in the Colorado season structures

Ok, this is certain:
No more statewide muzzleloader tags for bulls or cow. It will be by GMU/DAU.
Unlimited antlerless archery tags will not be valid in List A units.
Muzzleloader cow tags will be list B if the unit is list B for rifle and archery.
3rd season is now 9 days
Nonres cow licenses are now $350
There will be a hybrid draw system for the major trophy units, specifically mentioned was unit 201. This will allow for 20% of the tags available for some units to be available for those with 5 or more preference points.

This is speculative, but will likely go through during the January meetings:
Unit 54 will become List B for cow licenses.


I'm not even sure I can remember the rest, but it is supposed to be sent to me with some other details. I'll keep ya'll posted

Ya gotta be a lawyer to make sense of all of this. One things pretty easy to decifer though ~the cost is going up!

Colorado may as well price itself ridiculously high like all the other states. Fewer hunters but increased tag prices = more revenue for the state . Who cares about the gas station, sporting goods and grocery stores, I'm sure fewer hunters won't mean less revenue for them.

On the lighter side, the hybrid draw system looks like a good thing. Thanks for the updates, exo.

The new season dates really affect the first season rifle hunters. Very, very little chance of catching the bull while they are still screaming with this new schedule. Sure will make for some new planning.

Are these on the DOW website someplace?
I haven't found any 2010 regs yet.

This will get you there.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/SeasonStructure/

exbiologist:

Would you please tell us more about the hybrid draw system for premium units.

Thanks

KC

I will, I was supposed to be emailed the details yesterday, but I didn't get them. I'll bug Mary Lloyd about it again on Monday.
I know 201 won't be the only unit, but I don't know which others and whether they will implement the system for species other than elk....
Doing a search, I came up with their discussion minutes regarding this:
Hybrid Systems � Hybrid draws use a combination of 2 draw systems. Under a hybrid system, a portion of the licenses for specified huntcodes would be drawn (Draw A) using the current straight preference point system and a portion would be drawn (Draw B) using a system that allows access to applicants with less than the minimum number of points required for the straight preference point draw. Hybrid systems provide continuity to those highly vested in the preference point system but also allow access to high demand licenses for those with fewer points. Applicants at or above the point floor would have to declare which draw they wanted to enter for licenses at or above the draw trigger.
a. Hybrid Combinations � the types of draw systems to be used
i. Straight Preference Point + Random Draw
1. All applicants above the point floor would have equal likelihood of drawing a license in Draw B.
2. The random draw component would level the playing field for everyone above the point floor and provide a disincentive for building additional points for those Draw B applicants that only want to draw a high demand license.
ii. Straight Preference Point + Weighted Draw
1. Overall, applicants with more points would have a greater chance of drawing in Draw B but the odds of any particular applicant drawing is not only determined by their number of points but also by a random draw number. This makes the weighted draw somewhat more predictable than a random draw but much less predictable than a straight preference draw.
2. The weighted draw component would still provide some incentive for building points.
BGSS Pref Point & Draw System Strawman Alternatives.doc � 2/27/09 3
iii. Straight Preference Point + Names in Hat
1. Applicants with more points would have a greater chance of drawing in Draw B but depending on where the point floor is set and what kind of function is used, the increased odds of drawing with more points could be miniscule.
2. This system would probably require the most changes in the current draw program.
b. Hybrid Decision Points � necessary decisions needed no matter what combinations are used
i. What hybrid split should be used (i.e., % of licenses in Draw A; % of licenses in Draw B)?
1. The higher the percentage of licenses that go into Draw B, the more disenfranchised highly vested applicants will become.
2. The lower the percentage of licenses that go into Draw B, the more difficult it will be to split license numbers in huntcodes with small numbers of licenses.
3. A split of 80% Draw A:20% Draw B appears to provide a reasonable balance.
ii. What draw trigger should be used?
1. The purpose of a hybrid draw system is to provide potential access to high demand licenses for more hunters. There is little justification for including lower demand licenses in a hybrid draw because the straight preference point draw is working well for these licenses.
2. The draw trigger should address those high demand huntcodes that are inaccessible to most hunters within a reasonable amount of time. Generally these huntcodes are taking >8-10 preference points draw.
3. Should a hybrid draw exclude some huntcodes even if they are above the point floor (e.g., Ranching for Wildlife, PLO)?
4. The draw trigger should be determined by a three-year average ending with the 2009 limited license draw to ensure greater predictability in which hunts would be included in which draw system over time.
iii. How many preference points should hunters have to qualify for Draw B (the point floor)?
1. The lower the point floor, the more applicants will be in Draw B. Because the hybrid draw is primarily intended to address high demand licenses, it is reasonable that applicants should be well vested in the draw before they could qualify. Conversely, the amount of points needed to qualify for draw B should not be so high that only hunters that already well vested could ever apply.
2. A point floor of 5 points to qualify for Draw B appears to provide a reasonable balance.
c. Evaluation (Assumes 80:20 hybrid split, 10 point draw trigger, 5 point floor)
i. Access � 100% of hunt codes for hunters with 5 or more points
ii. Preference - >98% of huntcodes require < 10 points and would fall under the straight preference point draw. Only 20% of the licenses that would require &#8805;10 points would have little or no preference.
iii. Predictability � High for those licenses in Draw A; little or none for those in Draw B.
iv. Pros:
1. Access to all
2. Generally understandable
BGSS Pref Point & Draw System Strawman Alternatives.doc � 2/27/09 4
3. Leaves a good mechanism in place for >98% of huntcodes and addresses only high demand huntcodes.
v. Cons:
1. Preference point inflation in high demand hunt codes would be exacerbated because there would be fewer licenses in Draw A.
2. Penalizes hunters with high numbers of preference points because there would be fewer licenses in Draw A.
3. Makes the draw considerably more complicated and opens the door for more errors, problems, and accusations of impropriety.


I don't know how many of these points were approved and I'm still trying to find out. Maybe Monday I'll know more. But one of the important points I missed was the 10 point draw trigger to enact the hybrid system. And this could imply more than just elk, but also deer and antelope.

And preference point banking is back:

Preference Point Banking
In 2006, in an effort to remove preference points from the preference point �bank� and slow �preference point creep� (the phenomenon of an ever-increasing number of preference points necessary to draw certain limited licenses), regulations allowed applicants to use only that portion of their preference points (+1) necessary to draw a limited license. Although this method did not appear to significantly impact preference point creep and also added a greater degree of unpredictability to the draw system, it was generally a popular program and has been reinstated.

What it boils down to is you need a lawyer to decipher all the stuff. Colorado still is in the license selling business as opposed to game management. In a few years it will be only well off people who can afford outfitters and trespass fees who will be able to hunt with any degree of sucess.

If there's something you don't understand, just ask the question or PM me, I'd be happy to walk you through it.

Elk populations are reaching objectives, the days of easy cow licenses and 50-60k harvests are probably over--so the regs are changing to reflect this.




I'm dense--I still don't understand what the CDOW means by this?


Casey

Casey,
The way I understand the hybrid draw to work is this:
To trigger a hybrid draw for a tag, a deer, elk, antelope or bear tag must average 10 pref points for the last 3 years.
This will set aside 20% of the tags for the random draw.
To be eligible for the random draw, you must have at least 5 pref points.

I'm glad they're bringing PP banking back. Why they did that for just one year then bagged it escapes me. You can't statistically analyze any new policy's impact with one data point. It will be nice to not have to zero out my entire point pot if I get a wild hair and want to get a 1 or 2 PP tag some year.

The point banking is a good thing. The other stuff gives me a headache.

I'm thinking the return of PP Banking will make a difference.

I expect a fair amount of guys will be taking advantage of that and that some areas may require an additional point to draw.

Undersubscribed units and many of the 3rd season hunts may become even more devoid of hunters than they already are. That depends tho a lot on how the 2nd and 3rd choices shake out overall.

What say you?

I read the B list thing differntly. Archery B list will only be available if that area is also Rifle B list.

Can't see how the hybrid draw is going to reduce pre=f point creep.Would anybody really put in for an area that has maybe 25 tags, which takes 20 points and they have 6 points ,knowing that the chance of drawing a tag ( 20% of 25 is 4-5 tags) is slim to none. I'd only do it to build pref points. PP banking,I think will help. A lot of guys are sitting there with 8-10 points with no where to go until they reach 15+. This will give them an opportunity to use some points and reduce PP creep at the same time. I can see some time in the future where PP will be done away with. It cannot continue as it is, with some areas being out of reach to draw a tag for a whole generation of hunters. Draw for all elk tags,such is done for deer now in CO, is not that far away

Those areas with a full 30 day antlerless rifle tags in Sept worry me. That just puts more pressure on the elk for the regular rifle season hunters.

Only good thing I saw was increaing 3rd season to 9 days. Ending it on Fri, as it has been, is really stupid and cuts out a lot of weekend hunters that can't take week days off.

A DOW guy told me that the only reason 4th season is 5 days long is that theydidn't wnat it extended further into deer rut and making it longer for elk only was to much of a hassle for enforcment. Another case of make it easy for DOW and the hell with the hunters.

I would like to see notresident licnese fees made more in line with other states cost wise. Not that I am against nonresidnets, but CO is the dumping ground for all who put in for other states and don't draw a a tag. If they are willing to pay $850+ for a NM tag, why not CO.

Glad to see banking back, I am in no mans land with 6 points now.

i'm not willing to pay that much, let alone te 500 to 700 bucks a landowner would charge me as a resident for a cow tag here in nm.
if colorado increases their fee's, i know 6 hunters who won't hunt there any more. so now they lost that revenue from 6 less hunters.

keep it at 250 for a cow tag, sell lots, and bring money to needy communities thru hunters spending money on food,gas,lodging, etc...

if hunting gets any more exspensive, i guess i'll be down to just shootin coyotes.

hunting is supposed to be about fun, family, friends, meat, etc...

why would i want to spend 800 plus bucks to kill an elk, when for the same money i can go buy a cow, fill my freezer, and enjoy beef for the winter, without out all the headaches, freezing, and problems of traveling to hunt ??

nope, not me..

if states keep upping the price for nonresidents, i feel they're leaving a whole lot of money on the table, for themselves, and for the people of the state.

alpinecrick nailed it. Revenue is not the concern in any way--they are selling less cow tags on purpose by raising the price while keeping the opportunity available.

They've been advertising for the last 2 years that there would be changes in the way antlerless tags are administered as areas come DOWN to objective. This is the beginning. Fewer list B license areas is the next step.

Also, look at page 4: Customer Service Topics: Use of Preference Points. There will NOT be a return of point banking. http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdon...CCB-265AC0335DBC/0/Final20102014BGSS.pdf