Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Open sights on client DGR rifle- cosmetic or necessity?

Josh,
You do whatever you want, I have given you the option, I think the West Texas hunt is a good hunt, but I also think the Seymour hunt is a good hunt and I had good luck there as did all my other hunters that I sent there? I am sorry you didn't like it, It is a low fenced hunt and weather etc. can make a difference, I wasn't there when you were. You didn't complain to me after the hunt or I would have tried to make it right for you..You have waited a year to come up with all this and only mentioned after you got mad at a couple of us on the thread..

I have tried to be as polite as possible since I realized I made you mad and who you were, even though I don't agree with you on certain things, and I have apoligised several times and that is as far as I'm going to go. I told Wayne to refund you if you wanted a refund, so that is a decision you will have to make..He has access to a lot of land, most west Texas ranches are 20,000 acres to 100,000 ac.

Atkinson, I actually did make contact with about the Seymour hunt and you pretty much brushed it off. I am sure there are a few people that enjoyed it, but I got shanked on purpose and chalked it up to experience. I even had the courtesy to try booking with you again and now you are offering a refund. I am out a bit more than just what I paid you but so be it.

You made a clever little side-step statement there saying Wayne Weimer? (is that how his name is spelled) has access to a lot of land. And then you're little generic statement that most west Texas ranches are 20,000 to 100,00 ac.

1) I want to know exactly how much property that Wayne has access to.

2)I want to know which properties they are by name and the driving distances from Marfa.

3) I'd also like to know how often Wayne puts hunters on deer and the names of some of the ones that he hasn't.

These seem to be pretty straight forward requests considering the last cluster screw and the way you are known for taking care of your customers.

Josh

No, its not a stright forward request as you have already talked to Wayne about all those things early today,and your just trying to stir up more crap, He is under the impression that you still want to hunt with him.

I don't give a damn what you do.. your making all kinds of BS accusations towards me and now your playing games. I have tried to be polite with you and I apoligised twice. that's it, no more, you do whatever you want.

You have done all of this for one reason alone and that is because I disagreed with you on a iron sight discussion and that in itself is BS, I don't have to agree with you on such a subject, especially one you know nothing about.

Everyone else last year got a deer in Seymour including myself on the last day of season and I saw half a dozen bucks in a day and half of hunting..Also I shot a large hog...You didn't get a deer and you told me so, you were not mad at the time. I can't help that you failed to connect, I regret it when a hunter does not kill his game, but I will say that everyone else did. I don't guarentee a deer on a fair chase hunt. I never guarenteed you a deer..I find it strange that your the only one that didn't get a deer. Now I am wondering if your the hunter that showed up at the ranch with no groceries and begged off on the rancher to feed you meals, knowing that you were supposed to bring food adn cook for yourself and that it was not a guided hunt, said so in the add? was that you sonny!

You can do whatever the hell you please for this year, I don't want anything more to do with you and would prefer to refund you your money, but that is up now up to you and Wayne as I have sent him your deposit as you well know.. I talked to Wayne today and he agreed to refund you if that's what you really want. He has nothing to do with Seymour or this BS your spewing around.

I will never book you again for a hunt of anykind and that is for sure. Some people just can't be pleased and your one of them. I am no miracle worker.

This is my last post, take your money and run or go hunt. Wayne is in no way involved in this unless you make him so. He is just trying to make a living and do his best to provide good hunts for his clients.

What a treat of a post!

Lets focus on this portion:
"Atkinson, you are twisting around that Seymour hunt trying to make it sound like something it wasn't."

Hmm, now going from trying to blackmail Ray into supporting your foolish and inexperienced notions, you have accused Ray of outright lying.

And this portion:
"...his Dad kept me in a stand close to his house, minimal work." And, "We did spend a lot of time spotlighting after dark and anytime we saw a little buck I noticed my stand for the next day was a long ways off." Followed by, "I didn't hunt more than 150 acres the whole time."

More than a little contradiction here, eh? Close to home, but lots of driving, and stands a long ways off...

Now this portion:
"I gave you the benefit of the doubt at the time of not being in on the little scam. Even thought I might trust you one more time."

Hmmm, now gone from accusing Ray of being a lyer to being a thief.

Topped by this portion:
"But frankly, the "sonny" and other arrogant remarks you are so fast with have been wearing a little thin."

Translates into, "because you disagree with me you are annoying me and because you have experience and point it out, while have little you are arrogant. Aw shucks, such thin pasty skin.

Lets look at this completely moronic and contradictory has"
"We both know that the guys that hunt for a real living are using much more effective systems than iron sights. Iron sights makes the boneheads feel like they are real life PHs. And only these PH wannabees are allowed to tell people what they can hunt elephant with. Being correct is not the question, being big bwana is. What a silly joke."

So, are you saying that DG and elephant PH's, who do hunt for a real living, hunt with scopes? Other optical systems? Not hardly. Not only that, but they use open sights for a damn good reason!

Now, as far as wanting to be equiped as well as a PH who is using open sights, the optimal sights for elephant hunting, well, I'll plead guilty to wanting to using the optimal sighting system for elephant hunting! I'll also plead guilty to using a rifle in the stopping catagory to!

Apparently, a whole continent full of DG and elephant hunting PH's are using the incorrect sighting system when they use open sights. Sharpshooter knows best, afterall, he has shot one elephant, and he missed the shot on that one with his correctly scoped rifle at that.

This portion in particular earns a hoot!:
"And only these PH wannabees are allowed to tell people what they can hunt elephant with."

I can only figure that Ray and I are PH wannabees. Funny but my posts never told [bleep] what to use or what he could use, only what was the best option for elephant hunting. And Ray's posts were similar, except that he specifically told [bleep] to use whatever he felt best, especially if he didn't know open sights, which I think is more than obviouos.

Then there is this portion:
"Frankly JPK is doing his best to own the title of elephant expert and send down his missives from the mount. He's full of [bleep] and he knows it, but playing big bwana gets him off. Big deal, go pound sand."

My answer is for [bleep] to go earn some experience and then come back. IMO, his tune will have changed and he will be an open sight fan, but if it doesn't, at least he will have some experience behind his opinion, instead of nothing but vapor.

And the last individual portion that I will take a look at:
"If you can't have a thoughtful, reasonable conversation on the subject, you know where the sand is. You are still a joke."

[bleep], for it to be a thoughful discussion, participants have to have cogent thought. For cogent thought, you have to have experience on topic. As an alternative, one who has very limited experience may just want to learn from others who have much, much more. As you have made abundantly clear, your definition of "reasonable" discussion includes only discussion in which all who have a hell of a lot more experience that you agree only with you.

As I wrote earlier, it is always a hoot when those with no, or very limited, experience tell those with a hell of a lot more that their experience doesn't count for anything; when the novice gets pissy because those who have a hell of a lot more experience do not agree with them. And talk about arrogance!!! It takes a whole lot of arrogance for a one event wonder to tell much more experienced guys that they are emphatically wrong, and even more arrogance to tell them that they are wrong because of their experience and because they prefer open sights as do those who do the same thing for a living.

The rest of the post is a friggin' insult to Ray, imo and I'll leave that to Ray. But to blackmail a guy for not agreeing with him about something you know little about is damned, damned low.

This is how Ray responded, and I can't say it better:
"You have done all of this for one reason alone and that is because I disagreed with you on a iron sight discussion and that in itself is BS, I don't have to agree with you on such a subject, especially one you know nothing about."

Followed by:
"I will never book you again for a hunt of anykind and that is for sure."

And, "This is my last post, take your money and run or go hunt."

JPK

Damn Ray, I took you for less of a liar than that. I showed up with all the groceries and did well cooking for myself. The only thing I did not do was shoot little yearlings. I never laid eyes on even a half way shootable deer, and zero hogs. Funny that you had such extraordinary luck on this hunt. Then you lied when you said I did not contact you about how I was unhappy with the nighttime hunting those owners were doing.

I don't see a BS accusation yet. Just a bunch you don't want to answer. And I love those apologies....well I am sorry but you didn't kiss the right ass.... Polite with you means admitting you are right and I am wrong no matter the situation.

You are correct in one of your little spats, I don't agree with you on iron sights and you are unable to discuss the situation calmly and logically. You must use loud mouth "Hell I was there!!! bullshit to try to make your point. Big mouth don't make you a big man.

So everyone else at Seymore got a deer but me? Sounds like you guys might have gotten a bit of special treatment. Maybe some pastures that were off limits to me or did you shoot them in the spotlight? Sounds like that spotlight and you may be very close associates. Very curious. Now maybe you'd better get on the phone and see if I was the beggar hunter or is that yet another lie you intend to let stand?

And Atkinson I am pretty sure that you will not have to bother with booking me in the future on a hunt. I do my best to deal with honest men, that do honest business. I try to avoid big mouth liars who are trying to make their money on bluff and farts. I was warned about you and your poor ethics by several of your past customers. I should have listened to them. Shanks abound in all fields, it appears that you have worked you way to the bottom, which is no mean feat considering all the new shanks in the field. Maybe you can be their standard bearer. "Scum of the world, Unite! We've no were to go but down!!!.

I don't know what to do with Wayne Weimer?. He sounds like an honest man trying to make a living, which is fine with me. My only real reservation is that he has had contact with you and your business ethics. I don't know if he is an honest enough man to deal with you considering your filth. I suppose that I will just call him and use my best judgement. I want a decent hunt but that is pretty much impossible around you. I don't know how much you may have tainted him as a honest human being. Did you leave him any morality to work with or is he a thieving snake in the grass like you?

I just don't know what to do. I'll guess I'll call Wayne Weimer and give him an honest opportunity at my buisiness.

As for you Atkinson, you could make at least a small gesture to try to make up for the Seymour theft. Nothing much, just a gesture.

Whatever, josh

JPK, yack and sand, yack and sand, yack and sand.

You're creditability and experience is right up there with yack and sand.

Editted this beaut to some "lowlights".

Your f--ckin' kidding right?

Call a guy a lier, a crook, filth, and a "thieving snake in the grass" and then try to roll him for money for a year old hunt?

[bleep], you got some real "issues", and being a total, complete prick is only a minor one.

JPK

Coming from you, that is high praise indeed, novice.

One event wonder that you are.

Go shoot a dozen os so elephants, earn a little wisdom and experience.

JPK

JPK, I thought you were still wacking sand?

Here is a comment from Bill Stewart, another experienced elephant hunter, regarding dolts like you. Read it and maybe, maybe, if you ever earn the experience, you will understand how much of a fool you are being:

"But then when you get enough experience to talk intelligently about the subject at first you are angry, then you try to explain it to the unknowing, and then finally you give up trying to convert the terminally stupid."

BTW, Bill uses open sights on his rifles. He preffers wide apperatures.

JPK

Sharpshooter
The truth is you totally over reacted to a silly thread on the internet because you were challanged, then you made some stupid remarks and got your tit in a wranger, so you have attempted to turn it around by lieing about me and attacking my integrity. That is pretty CS IMO.

If you hated your hunt in Seymour so bad, I ask you why did you booked with me again this year to go Mule Deer hunting?? and don't give me that well I'm such a forgiveing good ole boy, you pretty much voided that excuse.

You didn't see any shootable deer at Seymour? I went after you, in fact the last day, and I saw half a dozen shootable bucks in the 120 range and shot about a 130 buck and a hog. That was after the place had been hunted for 45 days. I was in the house stand that you were in as its the closest stand to the big grain fields duh!, thats the stand you condemed as too close to the house btw.

As far as I know your the only hunter that didn't get two deer and hogs? That is a matter of record btw with Texas Game and Fish if you want to check it out. I know your the only one of my hunters that didn't connect. They all got a buck, doe and I think they shot hogs at night.

My suggest that you either go on your Mule Deer hunt or Wayne will give you your money back..But then both options pi-- you off don't they?, so just what the hell would you have me do, I would like to hear one rational statement come out of your mouth.

In my opinnion hunting fair chase behind low fences and hunting wild deer can meet with failure..I have failed to connect on many fair chase hunts. I have failed to see buffalo in the Selous or deer on the best ranches in NM and Texas for days at a time. It's called hunting, not shooting. I get a kick out of the steriotype that says "I want a fair chase hunt, no high fences," but then when he does not kill or see game, the whining starts..That fellow is NOT a hunter, he is a shooter with a line of bull. That is where I have put you sonny!

I have seen folks make a fool of themselves but you take the cake..BTW I take back all my early apoligizes, you don't deserve them.

Now here is your option, go with Wayne and have a great hunt or get your money back, I dont' know what else I can do, nor do I intend to, I personally would prefer you didn't go, but you paid your deposit and so its up to you and Wayne. I sure as hell don't want your business. If I was the outfitter, I would send your money back and refuse to hunt anyone that conducts themselve like you do.

Atkinson, I have to admit I was warned about your lousy business practices. I should have stayed with a more reputable person. The state that was made is that you were prone to book hunters to use their money for your hunting.

The Seymour hunt was a pretty shorty set-up maybe to make certain you got plenty to shot. They did a pretty good job keeping me away from any nice area.

Matter of fact Stony's dad did a long slurpy ass kissing job when I left because he knew he screwed me.

I got a pretty good brush off from you as I recall.

The whole situation is my fault for not trusting a better man than you, and those sonny comments reminded me of the quality of the man I a
dealing with.

You are simply an unimportant old man trying to act like he matters to the world.

I am sorry that you are not man worth looking up to, instead of the bitter fop you are.

I was warned about your low character and I guess I had to learn it for myself.

I'll deal with the varsity on future hunts, you are not worth risk.

Too bad, the world needs more good men, you're not one of them.
Josh

JPK, OH MY GOD you have become Bill Stewart's hero! You have the WIDEST APERTURE any of us have ever seen. And to DOUBLE your STATUS, your HUGE APERTURES are at both ends, BOTH ORAL and ANAL! BOY HOWDY!

Take pride in those HUGE APERTURES JPK, you earned them.

And before anyone gets excited, you've to to admit THAT was funny!

j

In truth, I wish I had handled the deal with Atkinson differently. Some of you got the impression I might have wanted money from him on the goat screw hunt he sent me on at Seymour. Thankfully money is not much of an issue with me anymore. God has been so gracious to me and my family. In all truth, the real reason the hunt did not go very well is because I refused to take the bait and shoot deer in the spotlight. I didn't understand at first why they would stick me in a stupid box blind all day, and not let me walk the pastures because that would "scare the deer." But as soon as it was dark it was fine to spend a few hours spotlighting deer. I guess it didn't occur to me that I was supposed to be shooting the little guys. My fault, I didn't know.

Second, I have always tried to like atkinson and when I have seen those knock down drag out fights over there on AR I figured it was just some princess city hunter pissed because the deer weren't tied to the tree on time and the Chardonnay was the wrong brand (if chardonnay has different brands).

So big deal at Seymour, I figure Atkinson doesn't know that they are spotlighting, saving deer for themselves, whatever. But now Atkinson's story is that I am too stupid to shoot the deer that are all over the place? Yah, I think not. I've killed truck loads of all kinds of game.

So now I am thinking a winter-time hunt until I go back to Africa in 2010. Once again I tell Atkinson I am interested in a hunt (NOT seymour) how about mule deer? Fine send atkinson $1800 or so and he'll have his man there contact me.

So I get a call from the guy in Marfa, good guy, bad guy, I dunno. And he tells me he has never met Atkinson, talked on the phone, heard from a friend, etc.

Then we have this little discussion thread going on where atkinson doesn't want to discuss the subject at hand politely and jokingly. He claims he doesn't know who I am after numerour contacts, cahsier's checks, etc. and suddenly I am "sonny" and talked down to like a young child. He does that slick little lying apology, "I am sorry, but you did....", or "I am sorry if something I accidentily said irritated you..."

So now I am thinking I am getting shafted AGAIN and treated like a child over a silly little conversation.

I have called this Wayne a couple of times now and from what he SAYS he seems to be a decent, honest feller interested in a legal hunt. Which oddly enough is all I wanted. As a side not he did everything he could to distance himself from atkinson.

I still find it hard to dislike atkinson, I have no doubt he has screwed over many more hunters than me, but still there is a thread that I want to like about him.

Obviously I am going to deal with someone more dependable in the future, I doubt atkinson will change his ways.

Maybe if things would have been different and we could have met face to face on a hunt, we might have gotten off on the right foot.

I dunno.

I doubt you'd get off on the right foot there sonny......it seems that's the one that's always in your mouth....thereby not leaving a leg to stand on.

Josh,
Your a piece of work, your the kinda guy that if you can't eat it then you crap on it, so no one else can..Your cussing me and accusint Wayne of being a crook also, but you told him today you still wanted to do the hunt..Don't come crying to me if you dont' get a deer (but I am betting you will), I offered you your money back, and I don't want you to go hunt there. Wayne has no dog in this fight unless you sic on him also..

I don't want you to like me, so don't do me any favors, You can't call me a liar in one breath and say you still like me in the other, that's just how two faced you are...Make no mistake since you lost it on this thread and said the things you said, I do not like you anymore, trust me on that.

here and in Seymour and in Marfa is wrong and your the only one that is right and now you making up lies about everything anyone sez, you ran out of truths an long time ago..

I think your stark raving mad, a total freak of nature, dumber than a box of hammers, if you were a good person you would have contacted me after the hunt and told me you got screwed, which you didn't, you just know more than anyone else..Those ranch people at Seymour are good people. they figure if they put you in one of the stands you would get a deer like everyone else, your probably blind, smell bad or too noisy..You can't set someone up as you can't control deer you dumb ass..

I think everything we say from this point on is just repetitions and I for one am going to let it go....I do hope you have a good Mule Deer hunt with Wayne, but I wonder if you will come back on here an apoligize if you get a good one, but that would be out of character.

Ray, your reading comprehension is poor. I don't intend to refute your silly oft repeated little lies. I agreed to hunt with Wayne based on his word, not yours. All I ever wanted from anyone, including you was an honest hunt. I wasn't unhappy about not killing a deer at Seymour, I was unhappy about being cheated and the question was how deeply you were personally involved in the deceit.

From what I can tell from my phone conversations with Wayne he does not seem to be in league with your deceit. So since I had already scheduled my time for this hunt and my nephew is un-believably excited, we decided to to ahead. I even asked Wayne to make sure we put my nephew on a couple of javelinas even if the mule deer get pushed to the back of the hunt. So I am going to trust Wayne and I consider you to have no further involvement.

Anyway, I did not mean my earlier post to give you the impression that I somehow liked or respected you. Your lack of a sense of honor and integrity would preclude any respect. I suppose that I was lamenting the fact that you have not lived up to the kind role model that so many young men need.

I guess all men have their failings and yours has been honesty. I sure wanted to believe in you, and truthfully I wanted to like you.

Somethings are just not meant to be. Your desire for that last dollar and that loud, nasty response you give to those that question you has served you well.

I don't dislike you, I wanted to like you, now I just pity you. I pity how you could have been a positive influence on all these younger hunters. Now you are just a bitter, dishonest, old man that is of little use to the world around him. A wasted, pitiful life.

I'm sorry for all of us that could have profited from your experience. It has been a pitiful outcome for us all.

j

No dog in this fight, but getting back to the original topic of open sights on DGRs.

I didn't have the good fortune of killing an elephant on my first hunt for them this summer - booked through Ray who delivered exactly the conditions promised and a no-BS PH carrying a 500NE Searcy with irons, and who I'll hunt with again - but I spent enough time close in among hundreds of elephants to know that as much as I like the scoped bolt action I carried, when I go back I'll carry an open sighted DR. Just an opinion from a non-expert.

[bleep],
I have been in business for over 40 years and its a tough business and you don't survive it being dishonest, but you will on very rare ocassions run up against someone like yourself that is irrational and frankly just plain ignorant and full of testosterone..I can't keep everyone happy and I can't get everyone a particular game animal because I only book fair chase hunts, but my success rate is at least 98% and I will bet money on that. I have folks, and yes some are on the internet daily that have hunted with me up to 14 or 15 times over the years..
If I was what you claim, this would not be a fact.

You have set out to do one thing and that is seek revenge, and it is hurting you much more than it is me, that "sonny" is the way vengence works. If you were anyone else I would give you a 99.9% chance of shooting a real nice buck with Wayne, and one in the 24 to 28 inch spread catagory, but in your case I wouldn't venture a guess, however you would have a much better chance of talking a deer to death than shooting one.

Atkinson, you sound like yow are just old and arrogant. Those waning days of your life can be a bitch. Times nearly over and without that big, bad cowboy outfitter veneer you are an empty sack.

Anyway, you have got to be as tired of trading barbs as I am.

What did you think of the skewering I gave JPK on the size of his apertures? You have to admit that was pretty damn funny.

Speaking of mule deer hunting, Wayne recommended I bring my 300 win mag. I've shot that single shot for years including two trips to Africa. And it is deadly. Problem is that I just got in a super nice single shot in 7mm Mauser. I even like the way it shoots with the iron sights. Do you think I should hunt with the 7mm, or play it safe with the 300?

Take care,
josh