Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire George Bush's National Guard Service

All fake memos aside, is there any reason to believe that George Bush's relatives and connections DIDN'T pull strings to get him into the Guard, likely ahead of others waiting?

I submit that his family would be most unusual if such wasn't the case.

Birdwatcher

Getting into the Guard in several Southern states, Air or Army, did not require any family connections and influence in the late 60's. I knew rich and poor that entered the Guard without any connections. It was not a problem, just as getting into the Navy or Air Force was not a problem, where the chances of combat were nil. I really cannot understand the difference. It is just something for everybody to argue about now.
I personally feel that flying the jet he did was hazardous enough and required from him a particular kind of courage. He could have gotten another assignment other than flying jets, many of which killed his cohorts, in training and later.

I have nothing but respect for those who served in Vietnam. God bless you all. As little respect as I have for John Kerry, I still respect his willingness to serve.



On the other hand, when I go to pick a president, I want a guy who was able to work the angles to get into the Guard. I want a guy who has connections. I want a guy who learned from his Dad how to ensure plausible deniabilty. I want a guy who knows how to con the rags off the ragheads.



The truth of the matter is that Bush's guard service just shows what a straight-up guy W. can be. I saw a piece on Fox last night, giving a summary of Bush's Guard service. Based on what I saw the guy pulled 4 good years of Air Guard service and then went a little slack and pulled just over the minimum to fulfill his commitment. This was no shirker. You also have to remember that when he made this commitment, we had no idea where Vietnam was heading. He could have gone to war at any time if things had been a bit different. Just ask all those Air Guard guys that have served in the Persian Gulf what a slam dunk easy job it is.



Later, he just adjusted his priorities and went from being a pilot to a politico and a businessman. If you could go to Harvard Business School or fly airplanes, which would you choose? The reason he got out early was he had gotten in his 50+ points before mid-year, and applied for a dischage three months later.



To me, all this shows how the Kerry campaign is sputtering. If this is all the mud they can throw up on the wall, they've got little left. It's all just too transparent and too weak. I'm a big fan of mudslinging, and this thing about the Bush Guard service was downright puerile. Thank goodness it managed to bring down Dan Rather in the process.

A good read on this subject can be found at

http://www.al.com/opinion/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1093770964297240.xml

What follows are some exerps from the article.


George W. Bush was commissioned a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard (his home state) and trained to fly the F-102 fighter-interceptor, which was the only fighter plane in use by his unit. He could have applied for a college deferment, perhaps a medical out, or even run off to Sweden. He did none of these.

Fact: For the next four years Bush flew the F-102 jet fighter, which, both physically and mentally, is one of the most demanding -- and dangerous -- jobs on this planet. Of the 675 F-102's produced during the aircraft's active span, 70 of its pilots died in crashes.

Fact: Flying a supersonic jet fighter plane is no child's play, as anyone who has watched a Blue Angels' flying show will attest. Cowards and shirkers do not volunteer to fly those things.

Fact: Though Bush's unit was subject to being called to Vietnam, it was not, and a principal reason was that the F-102 was a fighter-interceptor, designed solely to shoot down other planes. By the time Bush finished his training in late 1970, there were no Russian or Chinese Migs to be found over the skies of Vietnam: most had been shot down by American planes and the rest grounded, and the North Vietnamese never rose in the air again to challenge U.S. Air power.

Fact: Perhaps they could have sent Bush to another unit and retrained him in one of the fighter-bombers which were then needed for close ground support, but by the time he would have finished this training, his tour of duty would have been almost up, and the money and effort wasted.

After Bush had flown the F-102 for four years, with excellent efficiency reports, he was asked to join the Alabama U.S. Senate campaign of Winton Blount, an old family friend.

This he was allowed to do: Under National Guard rules, a Guardsman is allowed to move anywhere in the nation, so long as there is a National Guard unit that he or she can and will join there.

Fact: In May 1972, Bush joined the Air National Guard unit at Montgomery and began to work on Blount's campaign, headquartered there. Unfortunately, there were no planes in the Montgomery Guard unit that Bush was qualified to fly and, according to available information, he found himself flying a desk -- literally with nothing to do.

The Vietnam War was winding down then, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen were pouring back into the United States, many seeking positions with the Guard, which itself had become somewhat lax.

Fact: For the next four or five months, Bush apparently skipped his unit's monthly Guard meetings in Montgomery -- and for this, he has publicly been called a "deserter" by the left-wing "documentary" maker Michael Moore, "AWOL" by Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe, as well as a "coward" by the letter writer in the Mobile Register.

Fact: In May 1973, following Blount's unsuccessful run for the Senate, Bush returned to Texas and rejoined his old unit full time, making up the four or five missed meetings from Montgomery -- perfectly permissible under National Guard regulations. (The National Guard rule is that if you miss meetings, you must make them up or you do not get your discharge, and must stay in the military charge until you do).

Fact: Then, with six months left before his six-year tour of duty was to have ended, Bush applied for and received an "early out" to go to the Harvard Business School. This was an extremely common practice in those days, when there were so many military people returning to the States.

I myself applied and received an "early out" of four months, after my Vietnam tour. (It might also be recalled that Al Gore received an "early out" to attend divinity school, after serving only four months of his 12-month tour in Vietnam).

But Bush's being granted an "early out" is characterized by his opposite camp as damning evidence of his "cowardliness," or "shirking."

Fact: After five years and four months of active duty, Bush was thus placed on inactive reserved status and given an honorable discharge, which he fully earned. .

And the author goes on to say that:

At one point during all this, I had a conversation with a former Marine colonel who staunchly informed me that in his opinion, George W. Bush should have been awarded the Medal of Honor for his military service.

Naturally, I asked him: Why?

"Because," he said, "anybody who would fly a jet airplane maintained by the National Guard has got to be one of the bravest s.o.b.'s on Earth."

Here's a post I did a week or two ago. It should shed some light. The bottom line is the Democrats and their lacky main stream media are ignoring the Guards requirements, all of which Bush met and more, and asking questions they already know the answers to to make it look like Bush was a slacker. They are liars of the worst order. These questions have been answered but those answers have been ignored. I'd like 5 minutes alone in a small room with the whole lot of these CBSleeze types to impress upon them the necessity of telling the truth about a sitting President in time of the potentailly worst war we have ever been in. Here's the post:

From: http://www.christian-underground.com/viewtopic.php?t=1483

What do you really know about George W. Bush�s time in the Air National Guard?

That he didn�t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president�s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time � to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 � the time that has been the focus of so many news reports � when Bush �deserted� (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went �AWOL� (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren�t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

�In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,� Campenni says. �The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In �72 or �73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.�

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points � not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush �clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot� and was �a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.�

A 1971 evaluation called Bush �an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot� who �continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.� And a 1972 evaluation called Bush �an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.�

Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush�s service � in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets � would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry�s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

And, as it is with Kerry, it�s reasonable to look at a candidate�s entire record, including his military service � or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it�s important or not in November.

The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans� attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush�s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry�s.

In April � before the Swift boat veterans had said a word � Kerry said Bush �has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.� Earlier, Kerry said, �Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.�

Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

That�s fine. We should know as much as we can.

And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.
Byron York is a White House correspondent for National Review. His column appears in The Hill each week.

Gentlemen... thank you for taking the time to respond. And a relief to hear the full story, which does have a truthful ring to it. Having been drunk more times than I can remember, him being a former drunk doesn't bother me, however being a LYING former drunk would be another thing entirely.



Is this a trick question? Would I rather fly one of the most sophisticated fighter planes then flying in company with outstanding folks fanatic about what they do, or would I rather attend Harvard Business School with a bunch of guys who's main concern is likely how quick they can accumulate their first million? Hmmm....

I'd opt for the airplanes of course, but then I ain't likely to get elected President neither <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Birdwatcher

I really can not see why Dubya's guard service or Kerry's 'Nam service is such a big deal. What have they done lately, say in the last 20 years and more recently, since 9/11. Also, if military service is such a big deal for the dems, then why did they give Slick Willy a free pass?

Just a side question.
Any of you Nam era Vets have friends or associates who just happened to not show up for duty fo 5 or 6 months who were not Court Martialed and went on to earn a less the Honorable discharge. If I remember correctly "Undesireable" was written on their discharge rather than Honorable in many cases.

I had a buddy, an E6, who won the Bronze Star, the Silver Star, and God kows how many other metals who got tired of laying around the base and went home 2 months early. He was dragged back, thrown in the stackade, court martialed, stripped of his rank, and given a "Bad Conduct" discharge.

He was one of many like himself. Why did Bush get off Scot free?

"Why did Bush get off Scot free?"

Why aren't Kerry's military records public?

Did Kerry do his duty in the Ready Reserves when he came back from VN?

I'm sure the public would like to know.

The million $ question is:
How can the Liberals use the "Freedom of Information Act" to get access to W's records, yet they file a lawsuit to block access to Kerry's Military Records and Military Medical Records?

Haggis, you're not following--he earned more than the minimum points in each annual period. That's the standard for an honorable. When he got out the Air Guard was swarming with pilots back from Vietnam who were senior to GWB in rank and flying hours---the Guard was only too happy to early release young pilots, since they didn't have nearly enough airplanes for their senior pilots.
Kerry hasn't released his records for a lot of reasons, and the media will never call him on it. He was too busy visiting the North Vietnamese and VC "peace" delegation in Paris (while a serving reserve officer), protesting with Hanoi Jane, and lying to the U.S. Senate to go to drill.

I'm still in the Army Guard. I'm going to miss my October drill to go hunting. I received approval to miss through my chain. I will make up my drill and all is happy in grunt land. The only people that see this as an issue are people that never served in the Gaurd or Reserve, or out right liberal trash. Who cares what commy libs thinks because they are not intellectually honest anyway. I have a friend that is a smoke jumper that misses 3-5 months of drill every year and simply makes it up. For good soldiers it is never a problem to help them with their schooling or jobs.

Of course you always have the catch all - "CO's discresion" - if the CO says its ok - then it is regardless of what the book says (to a point - and missing a drill weekend definately is within those boundaries)

Absolutely, last spring I had a soldier locked up in the county clink for being AWOL. The little punk deserved it for lying on multiple occations. I had let him out of previous drills in which he lied to me about the situations. Since he went to jail he has kept his mouth shut and done his job. Amazing how that works. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I think I'm following just fine.

yep, I took project transition and worked for the state foresters at Ft Bragg NC, many who went in just a few weeks before me got 6 months dropped of of their active service.

I admiire Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.

I dispise having a "draft Dodger" president for 8 years who chased 19 year old interns for B J's.

"Because," he said, "anybody who would fly a jet airplane maintained by the National Guard has got to be one of the bravest s.o.b.'s on Earth."

I'll have to take exception to that statement because even the active duty AF knows this to be false. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> The aircraft back in the era W was flaying were older than the active duty ones but still better maintained and often better crewed. Did Bush duck out of frontline service? Not really since the unit he was in was an Air Defense interceptor unit charged with frontline defence of the US. Most folks never knew most of the interceptor units charged with our prtection were in the ANG. Almost all units left for interception duty are Guard units. None were ever AF Reserve. So to say he didn't serve is like saying someone that served in Stratigic Air Command didn't serve and wouldn't we be glowing now if SAC had to go beyond keeping the Russians at bay?

From what I understand, even if a guard unit was not needing any more people, That did not include people that were capable of being jet pilots. They were in short supply. Probably did not need daddy's help to get in. I was not in the guard, but was drafted into the Army. I got out three months early after returning from Nam. They had too many people, and nothing to do with the ones with just a short time left to serve. It was common then and now for guard members to miss drill and then make it up later. I have a lot more problems with Kerry's service and the period just after than I do with President Bush's.

How many grads from Yale got drafted? How many from that era even served in the military from Yale? Hell, how many Ivy-leagers took the oath to defend this country? My point is that GWB probably gave more to this country than 99% of his peers during that time of his life.