Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Caliber/gun confusion

I'm new to this group. I'm very interested in a new whitetail deer rifle for WI & MI. I currently am using a pre-64 model 70 in .270 Win. It is an awesome gun and shoots unbelievably well. However it is getting very valuable and for my type of hunting may not be the best gun. I hunt in VERY thick woods and essentially remain in a stand however I do walk around from time to time. With a 9 lb gun that is 44 inches long is VERY tiring and difficult to deal with in thick wooded swamps.

My study so far seems to take me to a few calibers. .308, .444 Marlin and so far my favorite I think is the .358 Win. What do you guys think?

Also I really love a winchester model 88 in .358 but I have been unable to find one. And it seems like any model 88 even in .308 is nearly as valuable as my pre-64 model 70. I'd like a savage model 99 in .308 or .358 but same problem. It also appears that only a Browning BLR is offered in .358 win. Is that true? It sure would be nice if Marlin had a model 336 in the .358 win caliber.

What do you think is the best choice. A used model 88 in .358 if I could find one, or a new BLR i n.358 or maybe even a new Marlin 444?

Any advice for me I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks

Flyingfool

Runway behind you, altitude above you, and fuel left at the pumps are all things that are useless!

Welcome flyingfool,



I've had much "good luck" on whitetails in the thick stuff with a 336 Marlin in .35 Remington. I believe you would find that, inside of 150 yards, it will do about as well as a .358 Win., with less pain and noise at the user end. Actually, a sweet shootin' .30-30 Win. is near ideal in those environs, also, though many refuse to give it it's due. (Too much magazine learnin' and not enough practice, I expect.)



The 336 Marlin has also been chambered for the .356 Win. and .375 Win. cartridges in the fairly recent past, if those appeal to you more. (The .356 is equal to the .358 Win., for all practical purposes.) You may have to look around a bit to find one of those at a good price.



Another great pick (maybe the best), would be a Savage 99F (featherweight) in .300 Savage. It is truly a classic combo for the northwoods deer hunter, for several good reasons. When the deer ain't biting, you can sit back and just admire it for hours. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And it hunts as good as it looks, I'm told. I hope to have one of my own, soon.



I could get more enthused about the .358's, .444's, .45-70's and such, if black bear were included as possible targets. BLR's and 88's never did trip my trigger, though, which leaves more for the next guy, I guess.

Ditto what Walker said. You sure don't need a 444,or .358. A 30-30, 35 rem, 44 mag will do the job

A 444 is a lot of fun and very accurate. I shoot mine quite a bit more than my 30-30s or35 Rems. I have to go along with the others, though. We should each have a dollar for every deer killed with a 30-30 & 35 Rem. SW

The previous editions of the BLR 81' are very nice rifles, but thee 358's in those are pretty scarce. If its 35 caliber you want then I'ld second the other guys on the 35 remington in the Marlin, as the winchester 94's in 356 can be hard to find as well.
But don't rule out the good ol 30-30 either.

Thanks guys for your input. Due to the dense cover and thick woods is why I'm tending to lean to the .358 rather than a .300 savage or 30-30. I want a very heavy bullet so as less chance of twig effecting the aim. Also I wanted a relatively slow moving bullet that imparts all its energy to really wack the deer so it won't move far. Tracking in a swamp with frequent standing water, without snow in think woods you can hardly walk in is tough at best. The less steps the animal takes after impact the higher the chance of not loosing it.

My Uncle has a very old (used to be his dad, my grandpa) model 99 in 300 savage. What is the different model differences. I see one of you mentioned a 99 F model. What is the difference from and A, B etc and F? Also what is a fair price for a good 99F?

There are black bear in the area where I hunt and on more than one occasion I've seen black bear in my bait pile when hunting whitetail.

flyingfool,



I've seen swamps. I've been hunting the swamps for 40 years, with snow and without snow. I'm trying to tell you what works there, based on my own experiences and those of other hunters that I have personally witnessed, because you asked.



The .30-30 Win. and .35 Rem. cartridges consistently work as well as, or better than anything else I've seen. "Brush busting" rounds exist only within the pages of the gun magazines, IMO. I think of it as ballistic comedy material.



In 40 years, I have had 2 occasions where my shot was deflected so badly (by seemingly small twigs) that I completely missed the deer! The first time, I was shooting a 7x57mm with a 175 gr. RNSP. The second time, I was shooting a .45-70 with (I think) a 350 gr. RNSP. Range was under 75 yards in both cases. I don't mean to suggest that these cartridges are poor choices for deer in the tag alders. My point is simply that if you want to shoot through brush successfully and consistently, you need to blaze out a shooting lane, first.



In my view, a "brush gun" is an easy-to-carry carbine equipped with a receiver sight. It points quickly, naturally, and accurately. It reliably punches completely through the animal at typical woods ranges, from most any angle, creating an ample blood trail. It also makes quick, accurate follow-up shots relatively easy to accomplish. (Modest recoil and muzzle blast helps with that one.)



That said, I know you really want a .358, so you really ought to buy one. Scratch that itch or you may wonder about it forever. What's the worst that could happen?



A fair price is one that makes both the buyer and the seller happy. It's best to do your own homework in order to figure that one out. Model differences are many and sometimes confusing. Here are just some of them, from earlier production (the really good stuff):



http://www.savage99.com/models.htm



For detailed answers to specific questions, you should visit the "Savage Collectors" forum. Those boys really know their stuff, and have tons of useful info to dig through in their archives.

Yes, the BLR is now offered in .358 Winchester. I do the same type of hunting as you, and though neither one of us needs a .358 one sure looks tempting to me also.

A Model 99 Savage lever-action rifle in .300 Savage is "THE" rifle/caliber combination for deer. The Model 99 is a fast-handlking, very accurate rifle and because it has a rotary magazine, you can load pointed (spitzer) bullets in the rifle.

These bullets have a much higher ballistic coefficient... I.E., they hold their velocity and, thus, their energy better than the less streamlined blunt-nosed bullets you must use in Winchester 94's & Marlin 336 lever action rifles.

If you "zero" a .300 Savage with a 150 grain bullet to be 2.75 inches high at 100 yards, the rifle/cartridge combination has a point-blank-range of 260 yards... more than enough for most hunters.

Using either the 165 grain or the 180 grain bullets, the .300 Savage is a good choice for black bear, elk and moose at 150 yards or less. I.E., it's a very versitile rifle/caliber combination... and the recoil is very mild. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I can agree with most all things said up to this point on this thread. If you want a .358 then by all means have at it. But I don't think your gonna kill deer any better with it than with a .300 savage, .30WCF,.32 special,.35 Rem., and so on and so on. For me if I was gonna go big bore I'd like one of those M94 .375 Win. Now I just have think of an excuse!

There are many calibers that will work for you but I doubt if a 30-30 or 35 won't get the job done anything else will either. You seem to be leaning toward something heavier though and if it gives you more confidence I would say go for it. A 45-70 is never a bad choice for hunting anything in heavy cover.

I've used a BLR in 30-06 a Marlin 444 and a Marlin 35 rem to take whitetails and was never able to tell much difference between the three. The only drawback is the 35 rem and 444 are rather limited in selection when it come to factory ammo. I really like my BLR but I wish I'd went with a 308 or 7mm08 instead of the 06. The shorter calibers make for a lighter handier rifle. The good thing about the BLR in 308 is you have a little extra range if the rare 200 yard plus shot presents itself. A BLR in 308 with a low powered varible or fixed 4x scope would be perfect for you hunting.

Well I guess I have no more confusion.

I bought a new Marlin 35 Remington. And just tonight had the Nikon 2-7X by 33 "shotgun" scope mounted and bore sighted.

I hope to try it tomorrow!

Now I'm still lusting over a 444! But that will have to wait until I get my 16 guage I've always wanted.