Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 30-30 and 45-70

As long as you don't have your mind set on a 45-70 Marlin yet, I would suggest that you also consider the Marlin 444.

The 444 will give you 90% of the potential of the 45-70 with a better trajectory out to 250 yards AND it wont kill your shoulder on the backend doing it. So you might spend more time practicing with it.

It has factory ammo from both Remington in the 240 for whitetail, blackbear and small hogs and Hornady in 265 Litemag and Leverevolution which can both be excellent rounds in the ballard cut rifles. Just these 3 choices give you a deer, hog, elk, moose and bison rifle, depending on load and range.

Plus, if you really want to go with heavy loads, then there are several 300grn (+/-)bullets to choose from, Speer, Hornady and Cast Performance to name only 3 that I have loaded.

Far be it for me to try to talk anyone out of a 45-70 if that is what you want, but given that same choice I picked the 444 and never regretted it.

Dang guys, I really like that 338 ME, I'm hopeful that they will come out with better reloading options. I'm still a little away from buying the rifle, so maybe they will have done something by then. I don't think that Marlin makes the 444 anymore??? Used is better anyway if I can find one nad still afford it.

Heck maybe I'll get one of each

I don't reload yet, but I do have a press and am in the process of getting started. Again, thanks for all the replies

LoneEagle: About 2 years ago, Handloader had an excellent article focused solely on loading for the Marlin 1895's. Many many loads in several pressure categories were listed. I will look up the edition and edit it to the tail end of this post in a couple hours. The data were far superior to any I've seen listed in the product manuals. The issue is still available for about $10, as I showed it to a friend the other day, and he called to secure a copy for himself.

I'm running 405 grain slugs ahead of 55 grains of H4895. It clocks about 1,730 fps. There were loads listed that got into the 2,000 fps realm, but I'm not sure I'd want to light them off in my guide gun. Likely the rifle can handle them, but I'm not sure that I can. I'll be back, 1Minute

I'm Bach..... Handloader - August 2007 # 248. Listed loads were on tables ranging from "does not exceed 21,000 cup up to loads that do not exceed 43,500 cup. A fine article.

So are you guys taking deer with your 444's? Seems like a huge meat waster for deer

Most reports I've gotten are that one can eat right to the bullet hole with cartridges like the 45-70 and 444. With their relatively slow velocities, there is little of the shock that is seen with high vel explosive rounds.

I don't know about the 33 ME, but I can say that the 33 WCF is a great cartridge. In my personal history, the 33 WCF was used on everything in the Mountains of the SW, and no one who used it ever felt undergunned.
I do think that hunting carries with it a certain ethic. I know this sounds obsolete, in an age where lies are passed around government, industry, and the media like so much loose change, but it is important to recall the words of our forefathers, that taking life is a responsibility, and that it needs to be done in the right way.
It is not simply important to use enough gun, it is vitally important to use the gun that will correctly place the bullet for an effective kill. In my experience, this means using the gun/cartridge one can hit with. Personally, I do think a 30 WCF is perfectly adequate for Elk, as long as the hunter can and will pick his/her shots, and respect range limitations. It is much better to place a 170 power point through the top of an Elks heart than to put a 350 grain 45-70 through the paunch.
There is no doubt that in raw killing ability, the 45-70 has an edge over the 30WCF. Something about a big, heavy bullet that cannot be duplicated with speed, or fancy jackets, but again, this assumes proper bullet placement.
I think today, with magnum mylitis everywhere, new people get transfixed with all the visions of power, not realizing that all this power comes at the great price of recoil. I can honestly say that I enjoy shooting my .450 Marlin, but if I shoot too many, my shoulder will remind me of my folly for days afterward.
My advice for new shooters is to not bite off more than you can chew. Have patience. Begin your shooting skills with the kind of guns that will help you to learn trigger control and shot placement first, because these are the fundamentals of all successful shots.
I still use and admire the 30 WCF. It truly is a great cartridge. No, it is not a whiz bang magnum that will shoot long wise through an 18 wheeler, so its limitations must be respected, but I still think for levergunning, the 30 WCF is the place I would start.

I have a 30-30 already, and think that's plenty for deer, but I want a little more for elk. As you stated, a clean kill is more ethic aligned than tracking an animal for miles because you made a bad shot, and that's NOT me in a perfect world. I did make a bad shot on one of the deer I shot this past weekend and still feel terrible about it, but the one I shot the day before dropped within 30ft of where I shot him. I don't think that I'm as good as I need to be with open sights to hunt that way, so either more range time or a scope will fill that void.

I like the scope idea, but not really liking the idea of one on my levergun. I think I'm still goign to do it though, just for the animals sake. I am set on the 338 ME though, and I figure that if they stop making the cartridge in 5 years, then I'll have a collectors item in 30. The 338 ME is not a magnum, and has almost the exact trajectory and velocities of the 30.06, which I think is a great elk cartridge and is big enough for any game I plan on taking. I also like the lower recoil of the ME compared the the other big bores discussed here at 16.2 lbs, I could shoot it for a while and get comfortable with it. My old '06 was a mule killer on both ends!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

If you didn't like .30-06 recoil, you might seriously want to reconsider the .45-70 loaded stout.

Man, those 45-70 guys will say anything to beat down the 444marlin. Marlin still makes and sells the venerable 444 Marlin. And owners of said rifles are still bringing home the bacon, venison, elk and moose, with a few bears thrown in for good measure.

I realize that websites on any and every subject at hand are fountains of misinformation, conjecture, opinion and outright prevarication, but that takes the cake this week for me.

1Minute,
I have that article and as I said I am aware of what the 45-70 can do. I just stated that when giving loads for this round I think people should be sure to specify which rifle they are using it in so that we all know.

Try H335 in your 45-70. My 400's at 1850 (chrono'd) were shot out of a Ported Guide Gun, I do not know what barrel length you are and if you even want to go faster, but I have found this load more pleasurable to shoot than quicker stepping 300's. Just a different recoil impulse. The 300's would make my arm go numb after 10 or so. The 400's are just a push like the 458 with 500's I used to have.

I have a 1x4 Leupold on my .45/70 and like it very well. That said, 200+ yards is getting pretty long with the .45/70. It can be done with the hot loads and lots of practice but I would suggest something flatter if you want elk at those ranges. Maybe the new .308 Marlin or .338 Marlin would be a better choice. I don't know a lot about them, you would have to check into it some.

LiveFree...........Anytime a new cartridge is intro`d, you should take a careful look at whom is doing the introducing.

Hornady has an excellent past track record, such as working and partnering with Ruger, introducing new and innovating cartridges (375-416 Ruger, the RCMs, and now more recently partnering with Marlin.

I remember the many predictions of doom & failure for the 375 Ruger. Well! So much for their failed predictions!! There have also been the same predictions for the 416 Ruger! I`ll predict there too; so much for their failed predictions!

For many years, many lever fans desired more range capability from their rifles. Well here comes Hornady with their "Leverevolution" ammo, which does exactly that.

I`ll make the prediction right now, that over time, lever fans will eat up the 338 ME, as such with the 308 ME, who like you, love the lever rifles and whom want more ballistic and longer range capability from them.

Hornady and Marlin, would not have invested in R&D, testing and so on, if they felt that there wasn`t a need to be filled in the marketplace with the 338 ME.

So if I were you, I`d gamble heavily on Marlin and Hornady for the success of 338 ME, rather than gamble on the opinions from those who make failed or so-so future predictions based only on their own guesswork.

Now you have available in the 338 ME, a lever capable of 30-06 #s out to about 600 yards, which before, was only commonplace with just the bolt actions and the #1`s......I have no doubt that Marlin and Hornady saw the same thing.

You really want a 338 ME, then when you`re ready,,,go get it!!

I'll post pics

Now I have to decide on the blued traditional style or the SS w/ laminate stock. The only difference other than the obvious is the blued only has a 22" barrel compared to the SS 24".

How much will that mess up the ballistics?

I love this site fellas! So much knowledge here, I'll have to thank my buddy for turning me on to it!

ive killed over 100 deer with my marlin 336 in 3030 last year i tried the 4570 and was very dissapointed in it past 80 yareds is just to far but then again i was using 405 grain bullets thats all they had i think they both are to small for elk though

.................22" or the 24" barrel? A 2" difference in barrel length won`t make a darn bit of difference with regard to any killing power, on any game, and the same ranges. Most people could throw a baseball faster than any velocity differences from barrels that are only 2" apart.

You`re probably going to lose about 35-60 fps with the 22" er or 1.3% to about 2.3%, which is based on the MV at 2600 fps. Big whooopie Doooooo! No ballistics will be "messed up" if you pick the 22" barrel.

22" or 24",,,,get the rifle you like the best and handles the best "FIRST" in either the wood or laminate and don`t worry about such small velocity differences. There`s nothing you cannot do with a 24" that you couldn`t do with the 22" er and visa-versa.

If you like the traditional look then go blue and wood. The 2" in barrel length will not make a difference. I actually bought a 308ME when they first came out, one of the most accurate guns I ever owned and sorry I sold it but my prefrences have gone to lightweight bolt guns over the last couple of years. Don't get me wrong, leverguns still get used and are in the safe, in fact I have a 95 yr old 1893 Marlin in 30WCF I hope to be taking a deer with this year.

Oh and as for the 444 Marlin, great cartridge that I owned for 10 yrs and loaded with 265 Hornady's. Devasting on deer with no more meat loss then a 30-30. After a few months of physical therapy on my right shoulder from an injury, sold the gun as recoil was pretty stout even with an aftermarket recoil pad

might want to check this out, guy used to post here IIRC

.45/70 ain't no laser beam, but getting to know your rifle it's a pretty functional tool

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3433415096555745370&hl=en#

That's what I have heard. That's great news cause I want the blued barrel and walnut furniture with the 22" barrel. I'm really excited now, come on tax returns!

Chip, that gun sounds like it would make a wall hanging gun

That video wouldn't play for me 1akhunter. I think I'll add a 45-70 or 444 to the collection just for fun

Thanks you guys!

I would agree about hanging on the wall but it looks to good and shoots to well to retire

THe 405g bullets are plenty big enough for elk, but I wouldn't use the slow Remington factory loads for that purpose. A 350g bullet running 2100fps is more to my taste. For non-handloaders the Hornady LeverEvolution is a good choice as is Buffalo Bore 350g loads.