Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Remind me again, 1000 dead and Billion$ for what ?

I personally talked to Iraqi, men women and children. They were grateful for our being there. The 25 million people liberated is worth the death of Americans. As a person who was in harms way multiple times in this conflict, I feel that I can make this statement and not sound like a hypocrite. I don't want to die, but if I died in Iraq, I don�t think my life would have been wasted.

"This has been war since 9/11 and I'd just as soon see it fought in their yard and not ours."
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This is the only thing that makes sense of it all to me. I still have some questions though, and I figured it out...I ain't gonna figure it out...

BUT one thing kinda makes me angry. We had overwhelming and compelling reasons to kill rag heads just after 9/11, how come we, (our congress) did not come forth with a full fledged declaration of war? You know, like they did just after Pearl Harbor? If our friend New Guy is willing to do his duty come what may with a full commitment then we owe men like him an equal reciprocity. It would seem to me that a specific and legal full declaration of war would keep men like John Kerry from backing out for convenience sake, and also keep men like Bush from beating his chest like Julius Ceasar, (Presidents don't decide to make war, contrary to Repub Nat Convention speeches...)

In other words, when do we get back to the Constitution????

Hey Carlos,

If you don't know the answer to that question then you never will. Read this scenario.

A Military Story -- Don't Close Your Blinds


The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. My
husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in
the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our
Country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good
explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our
front living room window. He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you
see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United
States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and
yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see
Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is
hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he
throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their
children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying,
they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are
afraid of their father. You see all of this son.... what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I'd call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations and they take your
call, listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you
do then son?"

"Dad.......... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to
whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your
place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you
to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're
pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door
neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get
involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my
husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for
help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and
puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door
and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and
then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in he window and
laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?"

Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I'd close the blinds,
Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him..."Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help people who needs
them...and they won't help.... You always say that neighbors are supposed to
HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop
him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself Daddy.....I can't look out my
window and just watch him do all these terrible things and...and.....do
nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds.... so I can't see what
he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking
pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husbands questions and he
says..."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door..."WHAT DO YOU
DO?"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his
tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he
says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY
SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his chest
and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's too strong
and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him
BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way.
You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before it's
too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good
men stand by and let evil happen son, THAT is the greatest EVIL of all. Our
President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must understand
that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove evil men from power so
that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look
out our window so that my nine year old son won't grow up in a world where
he feels that if he just "closes" that blinds the atrocities in the world
won't affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF
YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR
TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA!! SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR
CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."

So true Texasbatman. They should show the airplanes hitting the towers every morning and evening on TV. They say it's too disturbing to the public. Let us not forget. Look at countries like Israel. They live with terrorism everyday, every man, woman and child. In countries like that, you can bet this question would never be asked.

The last I heard it was nearing 1100 American soldiers dead, over 10,000 Iraqi civilians dead (3600 of who were killed be insurgents, the rest were "colateral damage"), and we are farther from being in control fo the country then we were before we got involved in this farce.

And for what; to trade a dictatorship of one for a dictatorship of the many? If it can ever be done.

One must sincerely suspect that this swap in tyrannies had less to do with Hussein and his Weapons of Mindless Distraction, and more to do with the spoils of war; the root cause of all wars.

Huh? What spoils would that be Haggis? The oil money that the Iraqis are using to fund their own reconstruction? Even if we took all the oil for ten years, we lose money based on the cost of the liberation. To claim America went to Iraq for monetary gain or spoils is just nuts.

If this war were not about the "spoils of war" it would the first in recorded history.

Today's army doesn't march without food, clothing, weapons, vehicles, airplanes, and a supply line for all of those providers. America will end up with control of the Iraqi oil one way or another, but the oil only a small part of the picture.

I mean really, are there little old ladies in Kansas volunteering their time and garden vegetables to stuff M,RE's?

Sometimes the spoils of war is nothing more than building and outfitting the ships to fight a war. Someone is making a profit off any war just as soon as some halfwit declares war.

Today's army rarely storms over the "Seventh Hill of Rome" for a victory and the spoils, the spoils are coming from the pockets of the Great Hairy Unwashed back home who are coughing up tax money to fill the pockets of those providing tools for the war machines as that army is supposedly marching off to save the Holy Grail or some other reason equally mythological.

Haggis,

Have you forgot, or did you ever realize, America was attacked? And who are the terrorist attacking Iraqis? It certainly is not the Iracis killing their own citezens.

"Have you forgot, or did you ever realize, America was attacked? And who are the terrorist attacking Iraqis? It certainly is not the Iracis killing their own citezens."

America was attacked by Saudi terrorists. In response we attacked Afganistan and eventually Iraq. Now that Bush's little war has unseated the Iraqi government terrorists are flooding over the borders INTO Iraq from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and just about everywhere terrorists lurk. Now, in addition to Americans killing Iraqi citizens (men, women, and children), terrorists from other countries have joined in the sport.

I haven't forgotten that planes flew into the Twin Towers, nor that a lot of Americans were killed, but I do question blind loyalty to a leader (Bush) who is taking us away from those who attacked and killed our people.

But one fact remains constant; if we had not been over there monkeying around in their business trying to make a buck, they would not have come over here to kill our people, and we would not have gone to war against a different people to get even. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jim,

Thanks for posting that, it's a good analogy, I know it won't convince the close the blinds crowd but oh well. I still believe one of the strongest reasons for us liberating Iraq is the message it sends to the rest of the Arab world, at least those in power, If you want to stay in power you better toe the line. We just walked through your strongest military, any takers? 1ak

Haggis,

That all sounds good to me, all you terroists cross the border and come to Iraq, keeps the hunt on more limited acreage and saves us having to spread out far and wide to find them. 1ak

I guess some people would rather be fighting them in our own yard instead of thiers.

Haggis,

Can you give me some examples to prove your point?

To our point, events like the embassy bombings, attack on the USS Cole, the World Trade Center bombing, the second and final World Trade Center attack on 9/11/01, etc. are why I feel we need to be on the march.

Let me ask you another question - If we stopped absolutely every military action and brought home every single soldier and piece of equipment right now, do you think we would see world peace??

Every single one and every penny if all it does is too teach SOB not to F*&k with us. We are the only Super Power left in the world and we should control it as such. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If the thousands of jihadists we have killed in Iraq were not there trying to kill US troops and block the Iraqi elections--just exactly what do you think they would be doing? Running convenience stores in Detroit? No, they'd be going about their murderous business in the US, or Europe, or Israel, or Australia. So let's kill them there--it's a shorter trip to Mecca anyway.

Well put...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Want to know why? - suck all the bad guys into one spot and take care of them. We are doing this so the following picture doesn't take place in the US.

I warn you graphic but damn it it happened - in the name terrorism. those are knife wounds in what looks like a young boy - a victim of the Beslan attack.

Right you are and anyone that thinks otherwise needs to get their heads back in the sunlight. Oil??? Balogna!!!!!!! We have access to all the oil we need without the costs involved in this war. This war is about a cruel murderous dictator, his murderous sons, and his association to terrorist organizations. He needed to be ousted simply due to the cruel murderous SOB he is. That alone made it right. We can't stand by and let that kind of crap happen. What in the heck is wrong with some of ya'll? He brought this upon himself by continouing to thumb his nose to our inspectors and not abide by the treaty he signed after the 1st Gulf war. Had this been allowed to continue (which I am sure all the Arab countries expected) then what would be next? There are some folks here who need to really do some soul searching.

Jim

Don't forget that Saddam shot at our planes for ten years.It seems that some have forgotten that . I can understand skeptcism about the war but not the crazy accusations about war for oil.He needed his ass kicked,no matter who got paid!