24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#3527014 11/30/09
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,045
Likes: 6
M
memtb Online Content OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,045
Likes: 6
While I'm leaning heavily toward the 6.5/284 Norma (as per earlier question), I can't get a 30 cal out of my mind, purely from a bullet availabilty standpoint.
Is anyone using and having real good success with the .300 WSM at the longer ranges? I'm a little paranoid about having a cal. thats not presently in military use. Knowing that .308 Win. and 300 win. mags are in use means that .30 bullets should be available. Thanks again for any input!! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
GB1

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
what's military use got to do with it ?

i own 2 - 300 wsm's. my factory winchester (usta be)laminated classic, took a bull elk at 402 yards. i was running a 150 barnes tsx, and it blew right thru him, double lung !

this year, my lilja barreled one took 3 antelopes, 2 over 300 yards out.

very accurate, easy to load for, and lots of get up !


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,303
Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,303
Likes: 2
It sounds like you are searching for a caliber with the best downrange performance. Here is an article on 30 cal bullets vs 7mm written by Bryan Litz. Here is the short version:

30 Caliber vs. 7mm for Long Range

Bryan Litz, Ballistician for Berger Bullets, has authored an excellent article on bullet design, What�s Wrong With .30 Caliber?. This story originally appeared in Precision Shooting magazine, and now can be read on LongRangeHunting.com.

In this article, Bryan analyzes the design of long-range bullets, from .22 to .30 caliber. He notes that while 30-caliber bullets can have very high ballistic coefficients, 30-caliber bullets must be very heavy to match the BCs of the 6.5mm and 7mm projectiles. As the chart below shows, it takes a 240gr 30-caliber bullet to match the G7 BC of a 180gr 7mm VLD. But most 30-caliber shooters don�t use those ultra-heavy projectiles because the recoil is excessive and because it takes a monster cartridge burning lots of powder to drive 240-grainers to optimal velocities. Litz notes: �Heavy recoiling rifles are harder to shoot accurately. Even if a shooter overcomes the mental aspect of heavy recoil, the �system� is more sensitive to minor imperfections in shot execution. This may be another reason that drives .30 cal shooters down to the �middleweight� 190-grain class bullets instead of the proportionally heavy 220-240 grain bullets."

[Linked Image]



"Litz concludes that the heavy 7mm bullets are a better choice than the biggest 30-calibers (except in unlimited weight �heavy guns� where recoil is not a factor.) Bryan writes: �Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can�t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you�ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil are really just the �nail in the coffin� for the heavy .30 caliber bullets.�"



He has a point which Jon Sundra has been saying for years. Recoil is far less with the 7mms. Don't get me wrong I am not against the 30 cal, I have a 300 RUM shooting the 200 gr Accubonds but I also have several 7mms: 284 win,7 rem mag (2) and a 7 RUM. Just wanted to point out this detail.

Have fun deciding on what your next build will be, then enjoy the fruits of your labor with load development and hunting with it. Lots of fun there.

Last edited by Azshooter; 12/01/09.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
Owning and shooting two 300 WSM's and two 6.5-284's light and heavy rifles in each.
Bryan Litz is totally correct, the 7mm would take care of both.

I did choose the 300 over the 7mm because I wanted bigger holes on elk and I chose the 6.5 over the 7mm because I wanted less recoil with the same ballistic performance as the 7.

But if choosing just one rifle the 7 WSM would cover all ground ime.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
When it comes to LR caliber selection for me (target, varmint, and hunting), I choose 6mm, 6.5, 7mm, or 338:

6x47 Lapua, 243 Win, 6-284, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5-284, 6.5WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Rem Mag Imp., 7mm Dakota, 338AX.
A couple of these are not in my hands yet, but soon though grin


Ernie "The Un-Tactical"

[Linked Image]
http://sebrests-usa.com/
IC B2

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,637
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,637
7mm is much better than .30 caliber in most regards. I only use .30s because I can buy ammunition off the shelf. Other than that I have no interest in them. Mostly I use 7mm Mauser and .375HH. I'm finally getting into the long range thing in a big way, and that will be 7RM and .338Lap.

Last edited by RyanScott; 12/01/09.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
What are you guys getting for case life with the 300WSM?

Anybody wore one out yet?

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
Quote
What are you guys getting for case life with the 300WSM?

Anybody wore one out yet?


And that's the trade off, I get great brass life and I have to believe better throat life with a 30 cal over a 7.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
SU-by great are you talking 10+ loadings b4 the primer pockets get weak?

Thx
Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
For a little perspective, run the numbers with "best" 7mm bullets, and .30 cal bullets.

Edge goes to 7mm, but it's a pretty small edge. Things like wanting a bigger hole in an elk, or bullet availabity, could negate that edge for a feller...practically speaking...


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
IC B3

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Dober, I'm up to 13x and they are still tight.
Trimmed once.

Last edited by SamOlson; 12/01/09.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Trimmed once is amazing and 13 is great as well. The best I've ever done is with my first 340 tube and I regularly got 12-13 b4 I tossed them.

Cool thx

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
This is all new to me but WSM brass appears to be very strong.

My 270 and 257 brass haven't lasted nearly as long.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
8-10 loadings with my .325. I tend to load it hot though.

Sam, watch out for the "bright line o' doom" on those!


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,991
Likes: 26
Jeff, what went first on your 325 brass?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Case body, halfway-ish up, where the Bright Line had been foretelling their Doom for a while <g>...


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,474
Quote
SU-by great are you talking 10+ loadings b4 the primer pockets get weak?


Yes Mark, I do. Out of all the cartridges I load for the
300 gives me the best life.

In fact, i buy a lot of once fired cases for less than half the price knowing
i got a good deal.

Last edited by SU35; 12/02/09.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
8-10 loadings with my .325. I tend to load it hot though.

Sam, watch out for the "bright line o' doom" on those!


That is about what I generally saw with my 270Whizzum stuff, too.
I also load em warmish.

Not sure on my 325 yet, as I have not shot it enough to run through 300 cases 8-10 times over!
shocked


"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker







Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,173
Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,173
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
"bright line o' doom"


Comes from the full length die, not from loading warm.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
No, it's where the case is stretching (the trimmed brass comes from somewhere, eh?).

I know the line of which you speaketh. 'Tis not the Bright Line o' Doom. grin


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

574 members (257man, 1beaver_shooter, 260Remguy, 117LBS, 1badf350, 58 invisible), 1,929 guests, and 1,296 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,194,264
Posts18,525,337
Members74,031
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.096s Queries: 55 (0.032s) Memory: 0.9067 MB (Peak: 1.0215 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-20 19:28:09 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS