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#3557358 - 12/10/09 The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again!  
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CanadianLefty Offline
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CanadianLefty  Offline
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Have any gunwriters used this one before? Any thoughts/comments on it?

It supposedly gets 3200+fps with 140 gr. bullets out of a 23.62" barrel.

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The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum

The 9.3 x 64 Brenneke case has functioned as the parent case for the 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum, which's essentially a 6.5 mm (.264 in) necked-down version of the 9.3 x 64. The wildcat status of the 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum ended in 2002 when it got C.I.P. certified and became an officially registered and sanctioned member of the German 64 mm "family" of magnum rifle cartridges.
The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum has 5.42 ml (83.5 grains) water cartridge case capacity. 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum maximum C.I.P. cartridge dimensions. All sizes in millimetres (mm).
Americans would define the shoulder angle at alpha/2 = 29 degrees. The common rifling twist rate for this cartridge's 200 mm (1 in 7.87 in), 6 grooves, lands = 6.45 mm, grooves = 6.70 mm, land width = 3.50 mm and the primer type's large rifle magnum.
According to the official C.I.P. guidelines the 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum case can handle up to 440 MPa (63,816 psi) piezo pressure.
The idea behind the 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum was to develop a very powerful 6.5 mm long range hunting cartridge that achieves very high muzzle velocities out of relatively short 600 mm (23.62 in) long rifle barrels. The developer, Mr. Joseph Messner from France, chose the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke as parent case, since it offers enough case capacity and a competent gunsmith can relatively easy rechamber a standard Mauser 98 or any other bolt action rifle to accept 9.3 x 64 Brenneke based cartridges. Beside the 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum rimless rifle cartridge Mr. Messner also designed a rimmed version for break action rifles of the cartridge called the 6.5 x 63 R Messner Magnum.

300 BP

#3557363 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: CanadianLefty]  
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mcmurphrjk Offline
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mcmurphrjk  Offline
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Northern Nevada
This cartridge has maybe a 1.5 grain advantage over the .264 win mag. Performance would have to be very close. What advantages would this round possess over the Win Mag?


Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
*Marvin Simkin* L.A. Times (1992)
#3557366 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: mcmurphrjk]  
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CanadianLefty Offline
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CanadianLefty  Offline
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I don't know; hence my question. The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum has 83.5 grains water capacity, is the water capacity of the 264 Win. Mag only 82 grains?

The other thing we know is that it doesn't have a belt smirk

#3557369 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: CanadianLefty]  
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mcmurphrjk Offline
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mcmurphrjk  Offline
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Northern Nevada
Published water capacity of the .264 Win Mag is 82 grains of water. From my understanding it takes about a 5% increase in case capacity to realize a 1% gain in velocity.


Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
*Marvin Simkin* L.A. Times (1992)
#3557377 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: mcmurphrjk]  
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Wildcatter264 Offline
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Wildcatter264  Offline
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Just looked at my reloading notes. My average measured water capacity to the neck-shoulder junction for Win 264 WM cases is 84.1 grains. FWIW practically however, max charges I can get into a 264WM case with powders like H50BMG is 75 grains, with a long drop tube, loading 140 grain bullets to OAL 3.34".


Lord, make me fast & accurate... Let my aim be true. Grant me victory over my foes ... Let not my last thought be, If I only had my gun. And Lord, if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. LTC J. Cooper
Alpha

#3557378 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: Wildcatter264]  
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smithrjd Online content
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smithrjd  Online Content
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Interesting cartridge, but nothing really new. Von Hoff, RWS, and the 7mm Sahrpe & Hart necked down as well as the 264 Winchester are pretty close to the same thing. All 61mm to 65mm. I really like the 6.5's will have to what is different about this one.

#3557379 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: Wildcatter264]  
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bcp Offline
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bcp  Offline
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SW WA
6.5x68 for comparison:

"Extremely thick brass results in 'only' 5.584 ml (86.0 grains) H2O cartridge case capacity for the 6.5 x 68"

http://www.tripatlas.com/6.5_x_68

#3557756 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: CanadianLefty]  
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HunterJim Offline
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HunterJim  Offline
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I would ask the Jeff Cooper question: "What's it for?"

My 6.5-'06 is a 6.5X63, but built on a narrower case (same head size as the 9.3X62 or 9.3X66).

The .376 Steyr was also developed from the 9.3X64 case, here going from 9.3mm to 9.5mm and shortening the case from 64 to 60 mm.

There is some wildcat interest in the 6.5 on the wide, short case so short actions can be used. My current idea for a "fave" is a 6.5 RCM. I have not tried one of these, so my theory might not survive the reality test.

I like 6.5s too.

jim


LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
#3559556 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: HunterJim]  
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DakotaDeer Offline
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I'm sure it works, but sounds pretty much like a whole bunch of other options that have at least some modicum of popularity. I can't see it taking off much.

#3559808 - 12/10/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: DakotaDeer]  
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djs Offline
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djs  Offline
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CO
With commercially available cartridges that do the same thing, why go through the pain of an obscure cartridge? If you wildcat a new cartridge, at least you get some satisfaction and fun. But an obscure cartridge is difficult to obtain nad just (generally) a PITA.

Bravo

#3561193 - 12/11/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: djs]  
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xphunter Offline
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Wyoming
For my purposes with the rigs I shoot, if I wildcat in 6.5, I would use the 270WSM Norma brass and neck it down to 6.5, hence 6.5WSM.


Ernie "The Un-Tactical"

[Linked Image]
http://sebrests-usa.com/
#3562374 - 12/11/09 Re: The 6.5 x 63 Messner Magnum? From Europe once again! [Re: xphunter]  
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Huntz Offline
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Huntz  Offline
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N.E.Wisconsin
Yup!!!




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