Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Using/Renting Horses for the first time advise....

Vince:

I never said you were grumpy.

KC

Even my wife thinks I'm grumpy and would be happy if I stayed in elk camp all fall. I'm even worse if I had a few sips of JD the night before and have a little hang over.

Of course a hang over make sone a better hunter. You walk a lot quieter so you don't hear that loud thud when you boot hits the ground

oDon't ever trust a horse ! If the owner says it doesn't bite, it will. If the owner says it is saddle broke, count on a rodeo. I love horses but I wouldn't trust one as far as I could throw it.

Those bow scabbards are a waste of money. Could never find a good way to mount it on my saddle. I seen guys using some kind of bow sling and slung it over shoulder. They liked them.

My advice. Don't, not without an experienced packer, and not without spending some time in the Mountains on a horse yourself with someone who has. Back country riding is much more demanding on a horse and rider than plodding around the barn yard.

Find an outfit that offers day trips into the back country and go on several day trips..... you need to get in horse shape. Extend the day trips eventually into over night or weekend trips.

A lifetime of experience goes into successful packing. Even then things can and do get hairy... back country experiences are not predictable, weather, wild animals,(Cougar, Bears, and Wolves), broken gear, injuries to horses can and do happen.

I have been a visitor here for awhile, but this thread got me to give my 2 cents worth. However as long as I have been around pack,riding and driving stock it might be worth more than 2 cents. Your going on your own and being mobile if you want to move your camp is a great idea. In my years of meeting weekenders on the trail it was the stock that compelled me to have a pack clinic. We offer a one day exposure to people like yourself that may or may not own animals. I'm sure in your area there is an outfitter or a Back Country Horseman group that offers hands on. The day is not designed to qualify you as an experienced packer but to offer you hands on and answer all the questions you may have. Our goal is when the people leave they are excited to get their animals on the trail. It is fun to see the guys smile when the light comes on.We do not expect these guys and gals to hire on as a packer from this one day of learning. Maybe at least 2 of you could attend a clinic somewhere close to you. Like Vince said if you hire someone that is not associated with the permit holder in that area you could be in trouble and the person more so operating without a permit. You could do all the explaining in the world but if you pay them that is the clincher. We have ridden by weekenders with gear spread all over the hillside, repacking is not an option. You may have a wreck like bees that will cause you real problems. But when you load your pack stock they should make it to camp. Since your experience is very limited I would for sure suggest you walk and lead the pack animals, that way get your gear to camp and have half the animals to tend. They require alot of attention which is time you could be hunting.This packing is not rocket science but you do need to know the basics and watch the animals. I'd be glad to answer anything else.

mtncook www.westernlifeoutfitters.com

best advise yet!

again, if there is any way at all talk to some one and see it.
if there is no one in your area a 100 mile drive is worth it, in spades. if you get near me give a call i will try to help.

Mtncook gives some good advice. What we don't want to do is scare anyone off getting started. A service like his is good and the $$ can be spread over many years.

The same outfit that I talked about doing drop camps has a dude string all summer. they do day trips and if you really want to get to know horses and the backcountry they do a ride from Vail to Aspen. it takes 4 days. you stay in backcountry huts two of the nights and a guest ranch one of the nights. this would be a great way to get a feel for the whole experience without killing yourself or a horse. the guides are very knolegable with horses and pack strings. they spend the whole fall packing hunters and elk so they could give you some good info.

I'm try to put together a scouting trip for this summer. Being from Michigan is going to limit my ability to spend time with horses in the mountains. We're trying to incorporate using horses on a 2-3 day scouting trip. Sort of a test run.

I'd love to be able to do a packers type training class, but MI isn't the place for it, and I can't see travelling to Washington or Colorado just for it. By the time I invest all the money into that and scouting, I might as well just hire a guide. Both of which are going to reach too deep into my wallet.

From the limited time I've spent with horses on guided trips, what I have found that works best for handling the bow while on the horse is to strap it to the back of my daypack, which I wear while riding. Just have to be careful the bottom wheel doesn't rub the horses backside while riding, and that it doesn't stick up to far and get caught on low hanging branches. I have a sling which I might try as well.

If you're not familiar with horses from personal experience, then I wouldn't plan on doing much actual hunting on that first trip with them. Somebody is going to have a lot to learn, and the focus of the trip will end up being horses/packing/etc. That may be okay with you, but the hunting will come second until you figure the horse thing out.

OTOH, you might find it a lot of fun to learn something new.

Frankie,
Do you ride much? If you don't own your own horses and plan on riding all day you may want to take some riding lessons so your back, butt, and legs can get used to it. They should also be able to help you get used to situations were the animals may get excited.

Another thing...get to know your horse..they remember you.

Saddlesore,
should they be worried about horseshoes ...if one falls off. What are the chances of a split or cracked hoof happening?

We have a few horses here at home but we ride on nice soft ground with very little or no rocks at all.

What about weight limitations on those horses?

Shoes are a problem. Most who are newbies or don't use horses enough won't know about tacking on another shoe, nor will they usually ahave the tools to do so.

A fellow rented one with us last year.I tacked one shoe on,but by the end of the hunt,it had lost all of them. The shoes were too worn to do much with.No crease left in them at all.
Very rocky country can lame a horse up if it get stone brusied.

If you rent a horse,you neeed to be able to look at it's feet to see the condition of the shoes.

Some horses will be ok throwing a shoe,some will chip out badly so they are walking on thier soles.

If the shoes are badly worn and they want you to still take the horse,I'd make them write disclaimer as to your no fault if the horse lames up.I have found that most of the wranglers that deliver the horses don't care crap about the horses and will try to pawn anything off on you to save them a trip back to the pens.

I shoe mostly for traction.Flat platse are hell on ice or snow.

If a peson is over 200lbs,they need to tell the renter when making the deal.Pack horses should be able to carry 150lbs. Soem will do 200. A lot of that depends on the terrain, how long the trip is,how many days will the horse carry it,and how well the load is packed and balanced or how god a rider is on top of the horse.

We hunt on foot and rent horses to get the meat out after the killing is done. In and out in one day and dont have to worry about actually taking care of the horses

I could tell you some horror stories about people with horses on pack trips. Unexpected things happen in the mountains. Combining horses, inexperienced people and rough country is a perfect storm in the making.

I talked to a scoutmaster who took several horses along on a summer camp out to help haul the heavy stuff for the boys. They were all walking leading the pack horses. Scrambling up some slick stuff one of the boys slipped and fell next to a horse, the horse stepped on his hand. It crushed his hand between the metal shoe and a rock. The scout master riding a horse a day later, came off and broke a collar bone and rib. There was post on here last October about a hunter whose horse slipped and went down, the horse returned to camp and the hunters brother went out and found his brother dead from hitting his head on a rock.

Not to scare you out of a great adventure. But to encourage you to plan and be prepared. You should learn to ride and camp with a horse. Preferably at home in easy terrain. Go to a riding stable and take a few lessons. Attend an Endurance Race or Competitive Trail Ride, volunteer as helper and see what the riders go through to take care of their horses at these weekend events. Learn how to take a horses P & R, how to tie a horse up over night, how to watch for saddle sores, filling in the legs, how much to feed and water etc. You can do all this stuff near home. Maybe your first hunts, you just use the horses as pack animals, You walk and lead and the horses pack the gear.

I usually pack my gear in 1st trip and return for a second load of hay pellets/grain. Anytime I make a trip out, I bring more feed back up on the return trip. In Utah, I'm basically in high desert anyway, so grass is light and really gets scarce in fall. So I do plan on letting my horses graze for a couple of hours each day, but know they won't get enough feed and I will suppliment what they grazed with pellets and grain. I enjoy hunting, but the time spent with my horses at hunting camp, is every bit as enjoyable as being on the mountainside.

Use a highline between trees to secure the horses when not in use. As mentioned Never let all your horse graze at the same time. Even in hobbles my horses can run faster than I can. So I keep at least one horse tied up, so if I had to, I could follow and round up the others. Watch your horses graze, If their heads are down in the grass, you're OK, When their heads start to come up and be curious of whats going on around them, It's time to collect them and tie them back up.

While Elk hunting in the Uinta Wilderness, I met a couple from Michigan. I asked where they were camped, They told me and wanted to know how to get back to their camp. I told them to follow me as I was heading in that direction. They followed me for 5 miles and when I turned off, I told them their camp was another 2 miles on down the trail. They said what trail! I said the trail we have been following. They had not noticed what we had been following. I had to give them a crash course on how trails are marked in the mountains. Rock cairns, tree blazes etc. They had followed me down the trail thinking I knew where I was going, when in reality, I was just seeing and following the trail signs that they never noticed.

Horses on highline in camp


Teaching a young man how to pack his deer out. He shot it, he gets to do most of the work.

Wear spurs.....sharp spurs.....



Casey

Do a drop camp, go guided, etc. Alot can go wrong, guys can get killed, so can stock. There's alot to learn, more than likely, you won't learn enough this summer...

Yea, why not stay home and not go. Sure can't get hurt that way.

As I stated earlier, there will be a lot of naysayers,but you can do it if you are careful.

Hell, outfitters and guides get hurt every trip in one way or another using stock. I see guys renting horses every year in the area I hunt and 50% of them are 1st timers probably. Most of them survive.The most common problem is stock getting loose.

I have sold mules and some horses to people for many years.Not as a profession,but sometimes I have extras. I would not sell a mule to someone who I think would get hurt on it,nor would I give soemeone the advice to go rent a horse if I thought they would get seriuosly hurt.Sure you can get hurt, but it isn't a given. Businesses like Sombrero would not be in business if every one came back hurt or dead

DakotaDeer made a good point - you'll spend just as much time learning both what to do and what not to do on your first couple of trips that hunting will often be taking a back burner. Everyone that's ever learned how to do it went through that process so if you can live with that you're good to go. The other thing is that you MUST know your limitations - if it looks dangerous it probably is - DON'T DO IT if you're not sure. That is how people get killed. The other thing you have to remember is to be aware of your animal(s). Handle the situation before it gets out of hand and it won't put a stop to your hunt.

Not saying stay home? Just better ways to go about it. Shchit can, will, and does go wrong with experienced hands. Get a bunch of greenhorns around some 1000lb animals with a brain the size of a walnut, your just asking for disaster. Carry on....