Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .325 WSM comparisons

John, interesting perspective. A person new to hunting could buy a 25WSSM and a 325WSM and come as close to the ideal "deer and elk" battery as is possible..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Dutch.

.....................Or he could buy a 257R and a 30-06 and have the same thing (capability).



Of course that would be boring and he might be handicapped by not having "magnums"



JimF

Good One!

MD et al-

But just think back to the original Win Short Stubs; they also did nothing that what we already had wouldn't do in the field. Even so, I've heard gun salesmen telling the new rifle prospect that these were ballistic superiors to the .300 Win Mag and the .270 Roy (right from Win promo adds). Whew!! Made me wince and my eyes water. But they have sold.

I also think the "churners" would probably have gone for a .338/.358 WSM, but a .325?

What will be interesting to me is with what brindle spit Win will spin this new phenom in their promo's.

GDV

I think the success of the 204 and 17 rf's had alot to do with the 325. Its different and marketing thinks they can sell it. I have my great-grandfathers 32 win spc sitting in my safe. So I have a little bit of the nastalgia bug with this. However if it was a lite, short 338 I'd buy one.

Hmmm . . . ..

I have been mentioning these 4 as the basis of 99% of the shooters I see in the woods, at the gun shop, and around the range for years now. I guess my impression was right. Always nice to know I can figure out the extremely simple stuff . . . . .

BMT

I told a friend, who shoots shotguns and pistols but doesn't hunt, that I was going deer hunting. She asked "Do you use a .30-30 or a .30-06?"

Pretty well sums it up, don't you think?

Just my opinion, but I see this lineup
17 HMR 17 gr bullet
204 40 gr bullet
hot 22 centerfire 60 gr bullett
hot 6mm 90 gr bullet
260 rem (or 25 cal) 120 gr bullet
264 140 gr bullet
7mmSTW 160 gr bullet
300 mag 190 gr bullet (I want the Dakota)
8mm mag 220 gr bullet
338 mag 250 gr bullet
ETC. ETC.
Load each (6mm and larger) to 3000 to 3100 fps and sight each one dead on at 300 yd. The trajectories or so close that one need never think about it when hunting big game.
I think that there is a perfect place for a cartridge in 8mm as long as it will match trajectories with the others listed above. To do so it would need an internal capacity at least equal to the 300 Weatherby or preferably slightly larger. I guess I will have to find a good gunsmith to wildcat mine.
If your preferences run to the 223 instead of the 220 Swift and the 308 instead of a Magnum, then an eight mm short mag would fit right in as an elk rifle.
For the life of me, I do not understand why the 8mm Rem failed to acheive popularity, while people still buy the 338 Win.
It only proves that the American consumer is totally unpredictable.
I think the 8mmwsm is just as safe a gamble as any made in the firearms manufacturing industry.
Besides just look at all the free press Winchester is generating on these boards, we are the ones buying their rifles and we cann't stop talking about what they are going to do next. Then we go to work, or chuch, or the bar and talk to our buddies about what we read here. And a lot of them listen to us because they think we know what we are talking about. I know that I get asked for suggestions quite often as to which rifle or cartridge would be a good choice for Junior, or Missy, or the Little Lady, or "Hey I want to start hunting ....."
I bet that building a few rifles in a caliber that will get us to talk about it is cheaper advertising than a back page ad in Shooting Times and more effective.

I suspect that they would have sold a lot of .338 WSM also, and that at the expense of the .338 win mag. This play may be a gamebit to have your cake and eat it too.

A year ago, we considered three wildcat reamers: the .325 Montana, the 350 Montana and the 375 Montana. all based on the WSM case. Actually made up the .325 Reamer before deciding to shelf the idea.

Rod--

I already knew you were a wise man.

John

It's funny to me that some of the same people who are saying the 325 is redundant wish Winchester would have done it in a 338.

I'm of the opinion that there really is no need for a new cartridge. But what the heck new stuff keeps things interesting. I think from a marketing standpoint, they got it right with this one. It can be reasonably argued that the 325 with well constructed 220 gr bullets gives us something the 30 magnums don't, but with less fuss than a 338. The 325 gives us a bore diameter that isn't over exploited in an all North American game worthy chambering. I don't see myself going out and buying one, but I do see the marketing logic.

I was a "churner" for several years but have been "cured"! I bought every supergrade, LT and stainless/walnut model 70 I could find but sold all of the supergrades, converted the LT to semi-customs and sold most of the stainless/walnuts. most of the sale were so I could put the money into new barrels and mcmillan stocks for the semi-customs. lost lots of money but had alot of fun and ended up with a dozen really nice rifles. started loading for the 250 savage and ended up with some 34 rcbs die sets. churning is over for me but I am sure there are lots of others out there. what really amazes me is that there are guys out there that never sell guns, they just keep buying. don't know how they can afford it.

I would have been somewhat interested in a 338 wsm or a 35 wm, but a 375 wsm might have gotten me to buy. My reasoning is that I have both a 35 whelen and a 358 norma mag so the 35 wsm would be reduntant, as would the 338 wsm since I have a 338 wm. The 375 wsm would have filled a nich that I did not know was open lol. tom



I forgot to mention that I also feel the same way about the 25 wsm vers the 25-06.

From what I have seen in my job, I would say the top three answers are:



1-They Don't save for retirement



2-They don't buy life insuarnce



3-They don't save for their kid's college.



Ita amazing to me how many guys can afford a third 35 Whelen but can't afford to save for a rainy day.



OTOH, Some guys work a little on the side to pay for rifles/hunting. I have a buddy that does a little contracting (under the table) on nights and weekends. That money goes to his hobby.



Just my 2 cents.



BMT

So Rod, tell us about the 375 Montana?

Jim Busha had two lines of proprietary cartridges based on the .348 Win made rimless like the .300 WSM; he called his the Heavy Express cartridges. I borrowed his .450 HESAM (he also had a .460). I was interested in how compact you could make a .450 bore for Africa use. I found out that you need a certain minimum weight in such a rifle anyway, so having a compact cartridge is not useful.

Anyway, Jim's cartridges ran from .243" to .458", but did not include an 8 mm or .325. He did have .338, .358 and .375. He closed his business after Winchester introduced the .300 WSM and his sales evaporated. I have his reloading guide, so everytime thre is a . XYZ WSM question I use Jim's data to get an upper limit on cartridge performance (he used a pretty sharp shoulder so I expect his results are slightly higher). Plus I don't know if any of the data was pressure test confirmed.

I like my .376 Steyr, but it isn't buring up the sales numbers either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jim

"He closed his business after Winchester introduced the .300 WSM and his sales evaporated"

I am surprised Lazzeroni is still in the business. Interesting stuff but Weatherby was the high-velocity pioneer and Lazzeroni's rifles are simply McMillan actions and stocks. With the Ultra-mags, WSMs, SAUMs and WSSMs, I really do not see a market for the Lazzeroni products. Very expensive all the way around and offering nothing different.

John G.
Good point indeed. Lets face it there are lots of "future" gun-owners. The 8mm shorty with 200-220 grain is serious medicine for elk/moose, and be a great complement for a .270,7x57 or .257 Roberts owner.

BMT--



You are a funny man! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And if you weren't essentially correct, all we'd have to work with presently (since the advent of smokeless powder cartridges) would be the .257 Bob, the .30-30, the '06 and .270, and maybe the Whelan and the .375 or pick your favorite old classic. What do we hunt here or abroad that essentially couldn't be done with those?



All the rest of them come out of man's nature to see "what's over the next hill" which means somebody (now for Win the question is "how many") will buy something completely different, something a little different <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />,something "better".



GDV

I'm surprized by the 325WSM as well . Especially with so many calling for a 338 WSM . Even a 35/358 WSM would have made more sense to me . I never have caught the short mag bug. The only one that made any sense to me at all was the 270 WSM . To me it offers measureable performance over the 270 Win. although I'm not sure anyone but the avid shooter could take advantage of the increased performance. The 7MM WSM offers nothing a 7MM Rem mag. dosen't . A 300 WSM = 300 Win mag . 338 WSM = 338 Win mag , 35 WSM = 350 Rem mag. / 35 whelen etc. etc. etc. I think the biggest turd of all is the 25 WSSM . It make's no sense to me at all. A 25 WSM would have been so much better in my opinion. In the end I think the 270 and 300 WSM will survive. If the 325 WSM or 25 WSSM survive I be shocked . I don't see the 7MM SAUM and 300 SAUM surviving either . Remington may steal some thunder if they release a 25 SAUM. I love the model 7 as a platform for any short mag. If the 7MM & 300 SAUM make it I think it will be because the model 7 can harness so much power in a compact size. Just my rambling thoughts . Hunt hard hunt safe.KH