Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors head spacing problems???

i may have gotten a cursed 99 in 300. it's a shooter not a collector so i had leupy mounts put on it. wouldn't sight so i checked the rings etc when i got home and the 2 front screws were loose and the rear stripped. got that fixed and the smith thought it might be the scope . sent off the scope it got lost now i have a new 2x7 leup compact on it. i didn't like the swivel on the barrel put on new detachable swivels. went to sight in... metal on metal from swivel. attacked it with a dremel tool and think i have that relieved but i'm noticing a ring about 1/4" from brass base.
head spacing?? using remy 150 grain factory.
could this be head spacing? can it be fixed. as you can see by the post i'm very hesitant to get this gun smith to look at it if it is headspacing. he has fouled up just about everything he has touched so far.
took off the forend today and it placed 2 shots way high at about 1 1/2" but it was a only a quick stop to check zero while i was hunting, i didn't have spotting scope, rest etc.
how tight should the forend be?
new barrel? or just ignore the ring around the brass. it's getting to be expensive trying to get this old girl to shoot.

The only sure way to check the head space is with the gauges, of course. I would have to see the brass to offer an opinion. I don't think it's all that uncommon to see some marks on the brass.

If you got that kind of reaction from the forearm removal, I would stay on that track. The forearm should not put any pressure on the receiver when it is installed. It should float and the screw only needs to be tight enough to keep it from moving around. Some people talk about bedding the forearm but I don't get that one at all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hornhead, Are you a reloader?Have you miced the spent brass to see how much they lengthened after the first firing?
Any other indications of excessive headspace such as flattened primer, backed out primers etc?

Insure that the chamber is clean and dry..Sometimes after cleaning and storage, residue from cleaning or oil from a lightly oiled bore will migrate into the chamber area and allow the case to move rearward more than normal during obturation..

It's normal to have the case lengthen somewhat (and expand to fit the chamber) after fireing..
The base & web are thick and so you seldom( hopefully) will see any stretching there..

Fireforming new brass to your rifle's chamber is normal and after the first fireing, aside from some minor trimming the brass actually will conform to the chamber better than a new factory round.
Will the spent brass rechamber so the action locks properly?

Many insist on doing a full resizeing for lever actions but with my M99 rifles, I find a partial resize gives good performance and longer brass life.
If you are concerned about incipient case head separation, use a thin wire like a paper clip with a short bend in the end..Reach inside the spent case and see if you can detect any ridge-thinning that can be felt..
Sounds like you have most of the small problems solved.jim

You didn't indicate the vintage of your 99, but considering that most were shot in .300 caliber using factory ammo, I'd be surprised if you have a headspace problem.jim

thanks jim & lf:
yes i do reload so i'll check the case length when i get home. never seen anything like this on a spent brass. looks like when you full length resize and you have the circle around the brass.
it does feed back into the chamber tho. most insipient seperation i've seen occurs around the neck. i've seen pictures of case i.p. but it's never happened to me cuz i don't stoke up my loads & mostly stick around factory velocity. i'm thinking you might be right about the oil in the chamber tho. when i clean it (from mzl) i leave a case in the action so i'm not wacking the face of the action, so anything left after long term storage by previous owner is still there- ie muzzle up ... everything flows to the chamber. interesting tho. i'll post the outcome after i try sight it in etc. ... once again...
been thinking of a bore snake, anyone try them? i've also heard they round out the muzzle.
hmmmm... hope i dont have to trim the muzzle etc. that's the trouble with these old girls - years of cleaning rods going in from the muzzle.
now come on boys don't let your imagination run away with you!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I use the bore snake quite a bit and it seems to do an adequate job. It's not what you would use for serious copper removal but it's good in between.

Haven't heard about a muzzle rounding problem with it. Sounds like an overactive imagination on someone's part.

Hornhead, I'm with Lightfoot on the boresnake..I don't think the fine bristles imbedded in the cordage would ever damage the crown..I use one for field cleaning only..

Use a good coated rod and insert it from the muzzle sans jag or patch holder, brush etc.
Drape a piece of old tee shirt over the magazine to keep the drips out.
Put your cleaner on the patch or setup and screw on the rod.

Work down to the muzzle for a few passes then remove via the muzzle.

Repeat until you have the bore clean as you wish.
Swab the chamber with a clean patch or use a wooly felt type shotgun bore swab on a short rod from the action end to clean the chamber..As I recall, I used the kid's hair clippers to trim the end of a 20 ga shotgun swab so the end would enter the chamber neck area.

I made up a rather innovative cleaning rod for the M99 ..
Started with a 3.00 used kid's fiberglas fishing pole from the Goodwill store..Removed the rod guides and selected a section that was just under .30 cal bore size on the thickest part of 34" length piece.

Epoxied a brass fitting on the small end to screw the cleaning rod appliances into.

Drilled a small wood handle and epoxied it on the larger end.

Now I have a flexible but stiff cleaning rod which can be used from the action-chamber end..Works fine and the fiberglass rod is nearly indestructible yet stiff enuff to push a jag thru and back easily..and won't damage the bore..jim

Hornhead

Sounds like one I used to own. I had numerous case separations using Remington factory .300 Savage ammunition. This was in the early 80s. I sent the rifle back to Savage. They kept it for six or seven months. Charged me about $75.00. When I got it back it still did the same thing, it was obvious they didn't touch it. This was right before Savage went belly up the first time.

I replaced it with another EG I bought for $250.00 at a local gun show which is a tack driver, even with my Redfield receiver sight.

I hope you get your problems straightened out because I know how frustrating it can be.

Bill

Hornhead..You didn't mention whether this was the first fireing on Remington factory ammo or the fifth reloading of your own..
FWIW, tho I have bought many a box of Remington 150 grain .300 Savage factory Cor Loct ammo, I have never been very impressed with their brass for reloading life.

I reload with 150 or 165 grain bullets and Rel 15 powder for good accuracy and velocity with lower pressures.
MY favorite brass is Winchester and last time I bought it I bought 300 cases....did the flash holes and checked for weight variances.

I think the Win brass is better brass than the Remington.

I have sawn both apart above the base-web and miked the thickness..weighed lots and compared and checked the case volume..It's a bit thicker and I think better annealed..

If you have not yet done so, try the loading data in Speer's manual..I can get velocities and accuracy with the 150 & 165 grain bullets with the Reloader series powders that would not be possible with other powders..except maybe the VV powder which I don't have ready access to..jim

Yes he did! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Yeah! and i just bought another 20 to try... sigh... and a bore snake...sigh... hope springs eternal within hornhead's heart.
thanks for the help guys - i'll keep you posted.
trouble is these dam 99s are so sweet when they work!! the actions are like playing with toys at a drive in movie!!!
slick!!
i might even post a picture of some dead critter if it works REAL good.
sako that's what i need ... a gun made by ancesteral viking critters!
NAH... 99s are cool! (sometimes) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
like i say if you're not up to the challenge buy a bolt gun! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
i think i've got a couple somewhere.

said i'd post results so here goes.

heavy snow and cold at the range.

the rifle likes 180 grain bullets. why ? who knows. everything i read said 150gr.

shot some sloppy 3" groups with 150s then switched to 180 gr.

posted 5 shots in 1 1/2" with 180s. then i wandered over to the silly wet range to shoot at piggys. first shot hit the rail. next shot wacked a piggy. (kentucky windage)

i'm thinking of trying to load down 150s to 2400 fps to see what happens. if it doesn't handle them well i'll just load 180s.

so FINALLY the 99/300 is good to go. i'll play with 150s after hunting season.

You didn't mention using 165s. My .308 F liked those but not 150s. How many powders have you tried?

What kind of 150's are you trying? My 300's seem to prefer 150 round nose over spire points. I prefer em too for the country I hunt in and the ranges I expect.

Chris

just been using factory stuff for now. 150s-rems & fed 180s winnys.
gonna get more into working up loads after hunting season.
interesting about the round nose. hope they work in mine. i'm thinking the short neck might make RNs work better. 300 is a very UGLY cartridge ... even uglier than the 308.