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I'm a relatively tolerant sort that didn't exactly balk with the idea of the wolf introduction... what I've become, after years of observing the entire drama firsthand, is a supporter of SSS.
The PETA's and WWF's of the world have deeper pockets than I/we do and they have a vested financial interest in keeping the litigation going.
I'm one that finds the howl of the wolf the jolting beacon that life is a brutal struggle, and that I'm part of it... however, nothing is quite as simple as it seems. This whole thing is so full of political maneuvering it's disgusting. In an ideal world, I'd support the wolf reintroduction... in the ACTUAL world, not so much...
Amen.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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If I could of found something newer, I would of posted it. I don't know if it has changed all that much though, at least that is my speculation. Most of the ranchers that I know down here where we still own most of the land still feel the same about the elite class of "cattlemen" that get all the Gov't handouts in the high country. I'd also say that most, but not all, of those lawsuits have been brought on by the minority who opposed reintroduction to begin with -- and they are not done fighting over it yet. In fact I would consider my neighbors on private property more conservative than the public grazers who are fighting the Libs.
Too many people buy stuff they don't want, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you survey 1000 residents of a college town in Montana you will, no doubt, find sympathy for wolves.
If you ask 1000 residents of rural NW Montana I doubt you will find little sympathy, if any! I wonder why?
If you are going to assess "public opinion" you really need to be talking with the stakeholders. Urban elitists don't have a clue when it comes to living and earning a living in the country.
WN
Prezactly. Same in WI. Ask a lib in Madison how they feel about the wolves and you'll get a unicorn's and rainbow's response. Ask a deer hunter in ANY part of the state and you'll get the 180. No one, save a small minority, wants them exterminated, we want them controlled. The problem with our state is the Department of Natural Resources cannot come up with a way to accurately count not only the bears but the deer as well - and, even if they could, there would no doubt be political pressure to somehow do otherwise anyway. It's not difficult to surmise that they're entirely off on the wolf numbers either. Wolves were put here to control the population of deer in our north woods - simple as that. Now that there are seemingly no deer, a bear population count that was off by 50% and an overabundance of wolves, something has to give. The wolves make an awfully nice start. And, BrentD, you have little understanding on what makes the world go round and cash registers sing during the fall season in WI's northwoods. If you choose to think it's the Birkie crowd gathering to hopefully catch a glimpse of wolf utopia, you'd be sadly mistaken. I choose to applaud the people that take matters into their own hands when it comes to "management" of lupus because there isn't a damn person in Madison doing a thing about it. Contrary to your belief, there ARE sportsman with a better understanding of what's happening in our forests than there are under-informed biologists,"ecologists" and pompous, politically-appointed puppets that choose to shine their seats with their derriere's rather than getting said derriere's out there for a first-hand observation of what's happening in the real world. And they'd do quite well to use their ears more and mouths less as well. You'd also do well to take your science and formula's and mix in some god-damned, down-to-earth pragmatism for a change. Amen brudda.
Something clever here.
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just how does global warming fit in to all this wolf controversy,Brent D? I don't know Fluff. How does it? Tell me about it. I'm sure you know. Sorry I had to slip out and kill another deer before they all got eaten by big bad wolves. Got lucky and it's hanging in the garage now. I'm sure you all wanted to know....
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Prezactly. Same in WI. Ask a lib in Madison how they feel about the wolves and you'll get a unicorn's and rainbow's response. Ask a deer hunter in ANY part of the state and you'll get the 180. No one, save a small minority, wants them exterminated, we want them controlled. The problem with our state is the Department of Natural Resources cannot come up with a way to accurately count not only the bears but the deer as well - and, even if they could, there would no doubt be political pressure to somehow do otherwise anyway. It's not difficult to surmise that they're entirely off on the wolf numbers either. Wolves were put here to control the population of deer in our north woods - simple as that. Now that there are seemingly no deer, a bear population count that was off by 50% and an overabundance of wolves, something has to give. The wolves make an awfully nice start.
And, BrentD, you have little understanding on what makes the world go round and cash registers sing during the fall season in WI's northwoods. If you choose to think it's the Birkie crowd gathering to hopefully catch a glimpse of wolf utopia, you'd be sadly mistaken. I choose to applaud the people that take matters into their own hands when it comes to "management" of lupus because there isn't a damn person in Madison doing a thing about it. Contrary to your belief, there ARE sportsman with a better understanding of what's happening in our forests than there are under-informed biologists,"ecologists" and pompous, politically-appointed puppets that choose to shine their seats with their derriere's rather than getting said derriere's out there for a first-hand observation of what's happening in the real world. And they'd do quite well to use their ears more and mouths less as well.
You'd also do well to take your science and formula's and mix in some god-damned, down-to-earth pragmatism for a change.
My sentiments exacalackely! I just don't like to type that much. 
Proud NRA Life Member
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It must have been "recess" time in Iowa!
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd going the wrong way.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good post, SKane. Excellent!
BAN THE RAINBOW FLAG!
PERVERTS OFFEND ME!
"When is penguin season, daddy? I wanna go kill a penguin!"
---- 4 yr old Archerhuntress
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open hunting seasons on the wolves, thats the only answer, keep their numbers in check, even a little low wouldn't hurt.
and stop the name calling and trying to be badasses online.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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Yep, shoot on sight anytime, anywhere, just like coyotes.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Problem is the wolves are reproducing faster than the low harvest number will accommodate and the various FWP's don't have the financial resources groups like PETA and DOW have... wait til it's in your backyard, you won't be so philosophical...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Ranger
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Problem is the wolves are reproducing faster than the low harvest number will accommodate and the various FWP's don't have the financial resources groups like PETA and DOW have... Brad- We have a concerned group of sportsman in WI that are assembled under the acronym HNP - Hornady, Nosler and Speer. They're doing wonders in fighting back. 
WWP53D
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Glad the debate has turned civil again. Lots of good info and opinions being given for those of us who have little understanding on the issue.
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Campfire Regular
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This was just on the local news. I wonder if the wolf huggers would mind if this was their pet that was killed by a wolf/wolves. http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=395570Dog killed by wolf DNR official confirms wolf was the likely culprit. Wednesday, December 30, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. Read more: Local, State, Outdoors, Wolf Attack Endangered Species List Upper Peninsula Wolf Pack Beagle SENEY STRETCH -- A Department of Natural Resources official confirms that a dog killed near the Seney Stretch on Wednesday was likely killed by a wolf or wolves. The dog, a 13 inch Beagle, had ventured about 40-60 yards away from its owner who was snowshoe hare-hunting, when the dog was apparently attacked. The owner, a Munising man, didn't see the attack, but said his dog suddenly let out a high-pitched bark. The man found the dog's bloody carcass moments later. Terry Minzie, the DNR's Eastern UP Wildlife Supervisor, inspected the carcass Wednesday afternoon. "It appears it was probably wolves," Minzie told TV6. "You can tell by the size of the punctures of the two canine teeth. And we know that we've had a pack of wolves in this area for several years." The attack occurred about midway between Shingleton and Seney. The grey wolf is on the U.S. List of Endangered Species. It's estimated that as many as 600 wolves may now live in the Upper Peninsula. Twenty years ago, there were apparently none living here.
The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.
FJB Let's Go Brandon
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Problem is the wolves are reproducing faster than the low harvest number will accommodate and the various FWP's don't have the financial resources groups like PETA and DOW have... Brad- We have a concerned group of sportsman in WI that are assembled under the acronym HNP - Hornady, Nosler and Speer. They're doing wonders in fighting back. They work with the Triple S group, don't they?
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Campfire Ranger
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MIV-
That sort of thing is a monthly, if not weekly, occurrence in northern WI, and, frankly, it sucks.
WWP53D
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Campfire Ranger
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Problem is the wolves are reproducing faster than the low harvest number will accommodate and the various FWP's don't have the financial resources groups like PETA and DOW have... Brad- We have a concerned group of sportsman in WI that are assembled under the acronym HNP - Hornady, Nosler and Speer. They're doing wonders in fighting back. They work with the Triple S group, don't they? Why YES, they do. And, in partnership with the Accubond Society.
WWP53D
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just how does global warming fit in to all this wolf controversy,Brent D? I don't know Fluff. How does it? Tell me about it. I'm sure you know. "Climate Science Initiative" ? If anyone has some answers,it should be you.
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[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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This was just on the local news. I wonder if the wolf huggers would mind if this was their pet that was killed by a wolf/wolves. http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=395570SENEY STRETCH -- A Department of Natural Resources official confirms that a dog killed near the Seney Stretch on Wednesday was likely killed by a wolf or wolves. I drive that area on my way up to our property in Ontario, Canada several times each year; M77 between Blaney Park and Seney. I always drive at night, it saves a lot of time. The past few years I have nearly tagged a dozen or more wolves in this stretch of highway, especially near the Seney National Wildlife Refuge. I used to dodge deer on this stretch and the trip east to the Sault along M28. I haven't seen a deer along there in several years. Lots of fox this year as well. I have little doubt that there is a large wolf population, at least in this portion of the UP around the Hiawatha National Forest.
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Campfire Ranger
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"Climate Science Initiative" ?
If anyone has some answers,it should be you.
I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting to be informed/enlightened by BrentD. I, like many here, am over-edjamacated and pompous in something other than wildlife biology and/or global processes and could stand to learn a thing or six. And, I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting. tick, tock, tick, tock.......
WWP53D
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MIV, Almost every other time I am horseback with cowdogs along, I will see coyotes that will approach and try to lure the dogs into a chase. Sometimes several times the same day. The farther you ride, the more coyotes are probably lurking just over the hill or out of range. A few of the braver coyotes will probably move in closer and yip and tease the dogs. If they can get the dogs far enough away from you to get them they do. There are usually some more coyotes out there as well, and it becomes a gang war fast. A few shots over them (you don't want to hit your dogs either) will put them on the run again, but if your dogs chase again, there will be another fight. Of course by then we are in hot pursuit horseback and always have saved the day. Older dogs know better than to chase them too far away from you. By the time you get to them, you will have some cut up dogs though -- this is with two or three Aussies or Healers, a lone Beagle doesn't have a chance.
I wouldn't even suggest that a wolf would not do the same, and to bigger dogs too. I'd just say that Beagle was still more likely to have been coyote lunch anyway, or would of been in my part of the world anyway, if I couldn't see what he was getting into. I never let them out of my sight in the woods either.
Too many people buy stuff they don't want, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like!
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