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#3674134 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: bearbacker]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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I'll try! Glad you liked 'em.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
CMG 300 BP

#3674258 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Mark R Dobrenski Offline
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Seafire,

I guess my post about 301 yards was just a little too subtly ironic.



Ya think......... grin

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
#3674624 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
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Royce Offline
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I saw the comment as more ironicly subtle, than subtly ironic...

#3675255 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: GregR]  
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260Remguy Offline
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Really, which factory specs rifles with 1 in 9" ROTs won't shoot 130 grain bullets?

The only factory barrels that I have in 260 are Remingtons and Savages which all seem to shoot anything from the 95 grain VMax to the 140 grain Partition pretty well and a couple of them do exceptionally well, for factory barrels.

Jeff

#3675353 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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65BR Offline
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Seafire, don't feel bad, my first deer w/338/06 was in the woods from a stand I never had been in before that dawn, at sun up shot a 55lb deer, around 40 yds thru the chest, it ran about 100 yds also, passing by my stand where I could see the silver dollar sized hole and blood pumping. The 200 BT sailed thru both lungs. Later a nice 8pt. at 200 dropped DRT and a very nice 6pt WT dropped in about 3 'death lunges' so perhaps those little deer are not big enough for the larger 'cone shape' energy dispersion? Who knows. I truly felt later I would have been better off had I taken my then 6mm TCU Carbine loaded w/85 SGK HPs where energy transmission would have been quicker in the short wound channel.

I had really thought I was shooting a doe about twice the size and distance or I would have passed on the deer, but odd things do happen afield, as again, never had hunted in that area nor stand and at early legal light, range estimation and body size was off.

As to ROT, I have a Sako 75 GW for my son, it has put 2 out of 3 into the SAME hole at 200 yds w/130 ABs. Twice the same day! And I do mean the Same hole, first and second shot both times, thanks to a 6.5-20x for testing. Federal brass did it (one group 308 stamp, other 7/08), RP would not duplicate.

Did I get lucky? I think not. The 75s have 9" ROT in 260 and mine shoots fine inc. 140 amax, bergers, RP CLs, and 142 SMKs that I tested FWIW.

Now I do have to temper that info, with my first quasi '260', a 6.5-308 Win that was a 23" 9 ROT, mistakenly bbl'd as I had ordered an 8t. That rifle came in just months prior to Rem 260 intro, but I compared blueprints on the round thanks to the Lonoke, AR plant folks, to my champer reamer spec and concluded I could use factory ammo. It worked/fired fine, no problems, but key holes and patterns resulted, no tight groups. I tried 140 PTs in that rifle also w/no success. That was a custom bbl that shot respectable groups using 100 Sierras, 129 SPs, and 100 NBTs.

If building a 6.5mm, IMHO an 8 is the way to go, some use 8.5s and if a longer bbl 260, 6.5 CM, or 6.5x47 L I can understand, as a 6.5x284 or 264 WM to keep pressures down. At the same time, I would not 'count out' a 9 ROT 260 to shoot well until tried. My experience varied. I would think perhaps the 130 Berger might prefer the 8 or 8.5t as the 140 NAB, but the 130 NABs again shot fine in my boy's 9 so you just have to try each rifle to see what they like.

I do seem to recall two M7s, one an 18.5" blue, the other a 20" SS, did not like anything heavier than a 129 SP, and both sported 9t.

Just wanted to pass on my results. Greg, if your 1885 was tested with 130s I wonder if it was ABs or Bergers? Some say they had a 9t, but I could have sworn long ago I read in Browning Literature/catalog they came in 10t and if printed, may have been a mis-print/typo, or perhaps my mind is failing, I don't know. One thing to consider on twist, there are many variables, inc. the 'advertised ROT' vs. the 'actual ROT' which sometimes varies. Likely not much, but perhaps enough to matter. I do agree that given a choice, I prefer an 8t everytime with both 6mm and 6.5mms, as I do a 9t w/7mms.

Alpha

#3675375 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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65BR Offline
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Oh, as to limits, just as with any other round, only ltd. to the choice of bullets.....and shot placement in most circumstances and standard rounds.

A good (or appropriate bullet for game i.e. a solid Barnes for Elephant and Rhino LOL) bullet w/shot placement will determine success, if one or both is not in play, failure may/can result....or at least dismal results.

#3675584 - 01/13/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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GregR Offline
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Jeff,

I haven't seen it in every example of any particular factory gun, but I have seen it in some examples of all of them. In fact, that's why Federal ended up doing 120-grain Fusion and TSX loads instead of 130s- they couldn't get the accuracy they wanted in enough factory guns with 130s.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
#3676123 - 01/14/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: GregR]  
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Ol` Joe Offline
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Originally Posted by GregR
Jeff,

I haven't seen it in every example of any particular factory gun, but I have seen it in some examples of all of them. In fact, that's why Federal ended up doing 120-grain Fusion and TSX loads instead of 130s- they couldn't get the accuracy they wanted in enough factory guns with 130s.


Seeing how most shooters likely see the 260 as a "deer" cartridge and the 120gr 6.5mm has a SD of .247, just a bit higher then a 130gr .277 cal and equal to a 165gr .30 it should do just fine. No one ever questions eiither bullet in the other calibers of this SD as being enough for deer.


I must confess, I was born at a very early age. --Groucho Marx

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when they deserve it. --Mark Twain
#3678583 - 01/14/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: Ol` Joe]  
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65BR Offline
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I do think RP may a huge mistake limiting the 260 to a 9 twist, as it sometimes causing issues with some wts., and lastly, they IMHO should have launched the gun/ammo w/120 gr Corelokts given the primary use by most hunters - Deer hunting.

The 140s initially were apparently underloaded at around 2550, vs. the 2750 advertised/spec'd.

Greg, esp. if the 130 tested was a Barnes, I can imagine being a long monometal bullet, it acts as a much heavier bullet requiring faster RPMs to shoot well.

The 120 Barnes is bad medicine IMHO in the velocity range of a 260 and 6.5x55. No doubt it will give penetration etc. like a heavier lead core 6.5mm bullet, if not more.

Can't imagine much that Fed load 'TSX' cannot take in NA, with shot placement.

#3679332 - 01/14/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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GregR Offline
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The 120 TSX worked beautifully for my kids on kudu and zebra, but I would still prefer to see a 130 for big stuff. I really miss the old 140 gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw load.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Bravo

#3680261 - 01/15/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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260Remguy Offline
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I'm shooting 140 grain Partitions in several 1 in 9" ROT Remington 260 and 6.5-284 barrels with MOA+/- accuracy. My 20" 7 MS parts gun shoots them into better than MOA groups, while my 24" 260 700 and 24" 6.5-284 7 do no worse then 1.5+/- MOA and the others fall somewhere in between. The 120 grain BTs and 129 grain SpirePoints and SSTs usually shoot the best groups, but no bullets in the 95 to 140 grain range shoots worse then 1.5+/- MOA in the 7 260s and 2 6.5-284s that I shoot on a regular basis.

Jeff

#3680413 - 01/15/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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65BR Offline
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Greg, I can see the reason you want a heavier slug, Larger animals like them less wink I wonder if the TBCC was Disc. due to various twists/accuracy results in various brand factory rifles?

Be interesting to look when I get home at my Asquare manual to see if the 6.5/308 Asquare was Saami'd originally as an 8" ROT?

Jeff, I'd bet the 9" ROT 700/7s do better running the 140s at top speeds, but would expect them to get less consistent at lower speeds. I did not Chrony my loads w/PTs thru my 6.5/308 so it's possible they were not up to snuff. I recall burning up some AA powder at the time that may have been less than optimal. As I mentioned, the boy's Sako 9 shoots well, but I never had any luck w the loads I tried, in my Rem 7's. I have heard the 125 PT is often simply a better shooting bullet than 140 PTs in 6.5 but generalizations are flawed as an adage an old BR shooter told me is true, 'you never know till you try a specific bullet/powder combo'...in your particular rifle.

Many times there are trends. One would expect once you have a given velocity, with a known/checked twist rate, you can predict if a bullet is spinning well enough to expect to shoot. There should be 'sweet spots' in RPMS for various bullets.


#3680503 - 01/15/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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260Remguy Offline
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Agreed that you can often tune the accuracy of a particular bullet/barrel combination by varying the velocity. You can often get good accuracy out of barrels that have too slow a ROT and a bullet that is too long for that too slow ROT by pushing the bullet at, or close to, the maximum safe pressures. This method seems to work in 140 grain in 1 in 9" ROT .264" bores and 120 grain in 1 in 10" ROT .257" bores.

I've never had much success with the 125 grain Partition in any .264" bore rifle. I don't know why, but the 120 grain BTs and 129 grain Hornadys will all shoot better groups with less effort than anything that I've tried with the 125 grain Partition.

Jeff

#3680736 - 01/15/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 260Remguy]  
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utah708 Offline
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My own philosophy is that I see no reason for pushing a cartridge near its boundaries. After all, there are so many pawn shop '06s floating around that I have no reason to ask the .260 to try to be one.

That being said, as a deer and antelope gun, the .260 Rem has few rivals. I also know that it is plenty ample as a cow elk cartridge. Beyond that, I am grabbing a bigger gun because I can.

#3682335 - 01/15/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: utah708]  
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65BR Offline
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260 guy, hate to admit I never bought 120 NBTs, but did 100s as I got a STEAL on almost 2k of them years back when I had my 6.5-308 built. The 129s shot so well in it, and my '96 Mausers I never saw a reason to shoot the 120s or 125s. 120 CLs did a few deer in DRT, as they were cheap enough to beg me to try them. Accuracy was not stellar, but killing results were!

I merely compared the 125 to the 140 PT, but based on the experience I had w/129s on deer, I'd venture to say at 260/6.5 Swede speeds, there may be less difference than more, on how a 129 compares in wt. retention, penetration, and frontal diameter vs. the 125 PT. I'd not hesitate to punch an elk, blackie, or even Moose w/one.

Right now 130 ABs are doing so well, it's my 'go to bullet' for now. Later I may try the 140 versions, and when my Bartlein bbl coming gets chambered up, I can envision taking a deer w/Bergers 130gr as I hear they spell lights out also.

I like to experiment no doubt, but I as you Jeff found long ago the 129 is a hard bullet to beat for any 6.5, whether 8 or 9 ROT, and for most general Big Game. NEVER have shot a bad group in anything w/129s. That is referring to the SP, as there is a diff in the SST, I hear some say it's 'softer' and can imagine it might be, so I would simply use the old proven SP.

#3687326 - 01/17/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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AggieDog Offline
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My Rem 700 SS CDL fluted barrel, 24 inches long, handles 140's just fine. Those were corelok's. I like to shoot 120 ballistic tips and 120 corelok's in the rifle.

The 260 Rem is a classic example how Remington always screws up launches of new cartridges. (or often does re 7mm mag). That little 260 Rem is what the 243 win was touted to be; a dual purpose varmint and big game cartridge. Had they promoted it as such, and provided the correct ammunition for the cartridge, and not stopped after a few years, their success selling it would have been much greater I suspect. They launched with the fat mags around the corner and freaked out in my opinion, bailed, and started introducing their Saums.

#3687698 - 01/17/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: AggieDog]  
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gmsemel Offline
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I don't own or have ever shot a 260 Remingtion. But I have and still hunt with a 6.5 x 55 all I can tell you is that while I would think long and hard about a 400 yard shot with any cartridge because I don't shoot at those ranges, since my home range is a lot shorter than that. That being said, Yea you put a good 120 to 160 bullet in the right spot like an elks heart or lungs and guess what you better have a real sharp knife and some meat bags. I have always looked at the 6.5 x 55 as being something of a pocket 270, And there are no flies on the 270 as a game getter. If I didn't have a 6.5 x 55 and wanted a 6.5 mm cartridge, I would buy a 260. And this if from a fellow that shot most all if his elk except 2 with either a 7mm Remington Mag or 338 Winchester Mag. Mostly with the 338 because I like the rifle. The other two that was with a 6.5 x 55 and some Norma 156 gr Loads from 21 years ago.


"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

Anton Chekhov


#3689268 - 01/17/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: gmsemel]  
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65BR Offline
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Aggie, agreed.....they (Rem) perhaps correlated their EGOS w/size and paper stats of cartridges, instead of looking deeper as those in the know do smile

Shot placement is a necessity regardless of power, etc. I don't advocate long range shooting for the masses, but realize when those who prepare and study ballistics well, having sufficient range time, they CAN be effective further than many hunters w/o that experience and knowledge. If in doubt......one should likely hold fire.

My furthest kill was a deer right at 400 yds, using a pipsqueak 6mm BR. I had practiced often to 415 yds and well knew where to hold w/my mil-dot scope, threaded a 105 amax thru both lungs broadside w/retained energy of just over 1k, and it was down in less than 25 yds.

I had 100% confidence when squeezing off that shot as I knew my rifle, and the range. I had virtually no wind, a calm animal walking slowly so conditions were good. A rock solid rest w/a heavy bbl Ruger #1 w/Kepplinger set trigger breaking at 8 ounces made it a chip shot to be honest. When all is right, shots can be made much further but bullets drop and drift ALOT as one gets on out there and I typically use a 400 yd limit for me, and usually kill at if not much less than half that distance.

When the conditions are poor i.e. bad shot angle, having surplus energy, etc. is not a bad thing if one is considering a shot. If one knows their rifle and cartridge limits and is confident all is usually well, but if confidence is lacking, one might better change what tools they use for the job. I believe a LACK OF CONFIDENCE can be detrimental to bullet placement just as excessive recoil as lack of shot cycle follow thru may occur.

#3689500 - 01/17/10 Re: Limits of the .260 rem on big game? [Re: 65BR]  
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DigitalDan Offline
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It should do at least as well as any 6.5mm loaded with 160 gr. RN bullets. Elephants, T-Rex, whatever.

Edited to say, 'within 300 yards of course.'

Last edited by DigitalDan; 01/17/10.

I am..........disturbed.

I always wondered what the job application is like at Hooters. Do they just give you a bra and say, “Here, fill this out?”



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