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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Okay, I'll be the Devil on this.... the "victim" sounds like he had his big man feelings hurt by a girl. OK, Curdog4570. This guy actually is a cop, and he's not joking. This is your cue. Go. 
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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Okay, I'll be the Devil on this.
I'm a little offended by some the sexist remarks here. Dumb rookies come in every shape, color and size and I have never observed that women cops are more cowardly that males. Whether either apply to this scenario is a guess however, as the "victim" sounds like he had his big man feelings hurt by a girl. Who knows. Take offense if you want to, but I am not suggesting it nor did I see anybody who did. I personally don't think men are inherently more "brave" than women, so why would women cops be less brave than their male counterparts. I took what was being said as copchicks having more to "prove" than men and possibly being more quick on the trigger, so to speak. I don't have enough experience with them to know, but I just related my experience for what it is. The push for greater and greater "officer safety" can only end in one way, regular folks getting effed. In my situation, the poleece were just pissed that I wasn't some drunk they could really hang it on.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Scared dogs bite, scared
people kill. I like that... Not the fact, but the delivery.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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Really though, what makes this story credible, other than it's what some people want to hear? I mean, I believe the cop hand-cuffed the dude. I believe he's mad. I've also seen a bunch of "mad" people do dumb stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise. It's not like we have a bunch of witnesses.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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No offense, T Lee, but our nation took a very wrong turn when it started pretending (and forcing all to pretend) that women could be policemen and firemen. Some years ago the house next to our neighbor's burned in the early morning. I was the first to call 911 and stayed on the phone until the firetrucks arrived. It seemed to take an awful long time and then there seemed to be delays in getting water started. Later we found the delays were caused by a new ordinance requiring EMTs to qualify as firemen and they had to do everything the firemen did. The two responding in this case were well beyond obese and one was a female and petite. It seemed the firemen were making a statement... art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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In 2004 I was stopped by a Michigan State Trooper for speeding while I was traveling East on US 2 just west of M 77. It was a beautiful early fall Saturday morning and I had gone to the nearest store to get some goodies for making breakfast.
I was having trouble keeping my speed down no matter what I did, even with the cruise set. Sure enough, as I look ahead about 1/4 mile, there is a State Trooper traveling toward me. When I got close enough and could see the officer behind wheel, I realised that I was going to be stopped and at that point I simply pulled to the side of the road, turned off the truck, rolled down my window and put both hands on the top of the steering wheel.
When the trooper pulled up behind me and then got out of the car, I realised it was a female officer. We went throught the usual busines: " Do you know why I stopped you? Where are you headed?" As I said, the usual stuff. She was pretty easy going and even somewhat pleasant. When I handed her my DL and CCL and she began to turn to go back to her car to run my info, I asked her if she was concerned about my handgun. ( I was trying to be very co-operative)She replied with a simple "No, it's fine where it is."
It was my first time being stopped since I had gotten my CCL and in hindsight, I probably was very nervous about the officers behavior toward me being armed. If the same situation happened again to me, I probably wouldn't volunteer the weapon up like I did. I was simply trying to be extra co-operative.
When the female trooper came back to my window, she handed me my papers and told me to slow down and be careful. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. I mean, here I am doing probably 12 over the limit and carrying a gun. I expected to be treated firmly. It was a pleasant surprise. And don't think she was sweet on me either. I think her name was Butch.
4 out of 5 Great Lakes prefer Michigan. 
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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In 2004 I was stopped by a Michigan State Trooper for speeding while I was traveling East on US 2 just west of M 77. It was a beautiful early fall Saturday morning and I had gone to the nearest store to get some goodies for making breakfast.
I was having trouble keeping my speed down no matter what I did, even with the cruise set. Sure enough, as I look ahead about 1/4 mile, there is a State Trooper traveling toward me. When I got close enough and could see the officer behind wheel, I realised that I was going to be stopped and at that point I simply pulled to the side of the road, turned off the truck, rolled down my window and put both hands on the top of the steering wheel.
When the trooper pulled up behind me and then got out of the car, I realised it was a female officer. We went throught the usual busines: " Do you know why I stopped you? Where are you headed?" As I said, the usual stuff. She was pretty easy going and even somewhat pleasant. When I handed her my DL and CCL and she began to turn to go back to her car to run my info, I asked her if she was concerned about my handgun. ( I was trying to be very co-operative)She replied with a simple "No, it's fine where it is."
It was my first time being stopped since I had gotten my CCL and in hindsight, I probably was very nervous about the officers behavior toward me being armed. If the same situation happened again to me, I probably wouldn't volunteer the weapon up like I did. I was simply trying to be extra co-operative.
When the female trooper came back to my window, she handed me my papers and told me to slow down and be careful. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. I mean, here I am doing probably 12 over the limit and carrying a gun. I expected to be treated firmly. It was a pleasant surprise. And don't think she was sweet on me either. I think her name was Butch. I've heard this a lot. Some cops actually like you to have a CCW license, and to be carrying, and will show you favoritism for it, it seems. My mom was pulled over for speeding a few years ago, and had accidentally left her driver's license in a different purse that she left home, but for some reason had her concealed weapon permit with her. When the cop asked her for her license and registration, she fumbled around in her purse and then realized she had the wrong purse. She told the cop what happened, and offered that she did have her CCW license with her, which he asked to see. He handed it back to her and told her to slow down and remember to always have her driver's license with her in the future. No ticket. You have to wonder. Seemed like this cop was showing favoritism for someone carrying a handgun with a license.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Maybe you're not aware that this exact kind of thing has been happening all over the United States since the concealed carry license movement got under way in the 1980s. [/quote] I don't doubt it; some times the cops actions will have been justified, and sometimes not, as apparently is the case here. As a shooter here in the UK, I can tell you a few stories about interactions with British Police when I have been carrying a rifle!!  Luckily mine have been nothing more than inconvenient, but I know of guys who have had Police SWAT units complete with helicopters descend on them while pigeon shooting, all because some busy body Anti has called 999 and stirred things up!! Regards, Peter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The young officer was only doing as she was trained. It seems that some indiviuals in the "system" have forgotten who is paying the bills. I always liked talking with folks who had a permit to carry becuase they seemed to be thinking like me. This IS a safety issue. It means they are on MY side. This is just another example of the "leadership" loosing touch with reality and who is really in charge. (the citizens) Politics comes in a variety of forms and to get to a "leadership" position means you have to play the politics game to get there. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A complait should be filed with the responding agency, the officer involved was wrong on several points. While she disarmed and cuffed the victim of this for "officer safety" reasons, she had no reason to leave him cuffed as long as she did even a few minutes after her back up arrived was to long. She had no good reason to disarm the victem at all, no reasons that are articutable anyway. If the public allows this type abuse to continue it will only get worse, this female officer is most likely a Rookie, from my experiance as a Police FTO rookies esspecially females tend to be very paranoid the later at night or earlier in the morning tends to just make there paranoia worse, and they get badge heavy real fast as well.
Declaration of Independance, in ENGLISH
U.S. Constitution, in ENGLISH
U.S. Bill of Rights, in ENGLISH
If you cannot or don't want to learn ENGLISH, go back to the third world cesspool you came from
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Campfire Regular
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[/quote] Whether either apply to this scenario is a guess however, as the "victim" sounds like he had his big man feelings hurt by a girl. Who knows. [/quote]
I normally try to stay out of the LE discussions, and generally agree with my contemporary, ltppowell, but I've got to disagree here. We had this discussion about CCDW encounters throughout our Department when KY first allowed the practice. A LARGE percentage of officers, veteran & younger, advocated doing close to what the female officer allegedly did ( disarming the CCDW holder but without the handcuffing ). However, as cooler heads pointed out, the SAME STATE that grants us our powers to carry a weapon has ALSO granted the CCDW holder the same right. That philosophy is taught in our Academy to the recruits.
Handcuffing a suspect for safety purposes is generally allowed ( at least by KY courts ), handcuffing a victim is not. If she had been concerned about the CCDW's involvement in the encounter, she should have admonished him not to draw the weapon, and then waited for her backup. I have had to tell some "tacticool" types that they couldn't help search their business with us, and everyone has been agreeable with the restrictions. Most civilians ( that I have encountered ) that have been through KY's CCDW training have been very good about following my instructions.
So, based upon what I read, I believe the female officer acted improperly and that she probably was somewhat insecure in handling the situation. There are many ways of accomplishing the same result ( taking the CCDW out of the equation ) without creating the animosity and rights violations that ultimately occurred here.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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That would have gotten an apology out of our Sheriff and the officer receiving 'additional training". That would be how it should be done. "she should be monitoring parking meters." Athough I agree with the sentiment, around here "Parking Enforcement" is not part of the police department. Police officers have to be "certified" but anyone can apply for parking enforcement (no certification required).
Last edited by chris112; 01/18/10.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
We have a good department and an outstanding Sheriff, we are very fortunate.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Things like that really pizz me off. If a cop doesn't have any more confidence than that and is afraid for her life in that situation, she shouldn't be choosing that for a profession. Somebody has screwed up giving that girl a job. She did what many other cops have done before.. Try to carry openly in Milwaukee, TAX HELL WISCONSIN and see what happens... Perfectly legal, but 99% of the cops who spot you are gonna take you DOWN.. Maybe, just maybe, later you might get your gun back... One police chief spoke openly of disobeying the memo from the state AG reminding PDs that open carry is legal.. The chief (like, in Appleton or similar) warned openly he has instructed his officers to confront, disarm and handcuff anyone they see carrying openly.. Life is SO good here in TAX HELL WISCONSIN...  Sounds like you have a police chief that needs to find himself paying a lawyer out of his own pocket for something that he ordered done on the job. There was an effort made a few years ago to link CCW records to drivers license records in this state. Reason being? "Officer Safety" ie so that when you were pulled over the officer would no if you might have a concealed weapon. Most of the committee that was taking commits didn't even know what the standards were to get a CCW. Seamed to "think" anyone could get one. Boy did they get an education.
Last edited by chris112; 01/18/10.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The wimen cops in the "People's Republic of Madison" are all dykes. Yell "Hey Butch" and they all turn around.
We had a woman that couldn't have been more than 100 lbs. on our Village's force. I rode along with her one night and was impressed at her abilities to command respect and attention from those that she demanded it from. It goes both ways.
Feel the Bern in your wallet.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I was told by a friend (cop) that if I am anywhere near a crime scene (e.g., burglary) and am stopped with a firearm on me (legal or not) expect to be handcuffed until the situation is generally understood. Responding cops do not know who is the good guy or the bad guy and need to control the situation. SOP in most jurisdictions.
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Campfire Tracker
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However, as cooler heads pointed out, the SAME STATE that grants us our powers to carry a weapon has ALSO granted the CCDW holder the same right. That philosophy is taught in our Academy to the recruits.
sgtsmmiii, I certainly agree and appreciate this attitude. I will offer just one little clarification though. The State grants no rights to either LE or the citizenry. The right is endowed by The Creator and is enumerated in the Constitution of The United States of America. The "State", in accordance with the Constitution, issues permits to carry, to those individuals who are not prohibited by law from possession of a firearm and who have displayed minimal proficiency with their individual handgun. Other than that, your's was a very good post. Alan
Food is at the core of Hunting and Fishing - Rebecca Gray
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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sgtsmmiii, I certainly agree and appreciate this attitude. I will offer just one little clarification though. The State grants no rights to either LE or the citizenry. The right is endowed by The Creator and is enumerated in the Constitution of The United States of America. The "State", in accordance with the Constitution, issues permits to carry, to those individuals who are not prohibited by law from possession of a firearm and who have displayed minimal proficiency with their individual handgun. +1
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Based upon the read, I don't disagree. But what makes this "read" credible? You know LE is not going to respond one way or the other unless it is in the disciplinary action toward the officer. It could be just as described, but more likely 50% correct. You know that.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No offense, T Lee, but our nation took a very wrong turn when it started pretending (and forcing all to pretend) that women could be policemen and firemen. The problem wasn't letting women into those professions, the problem was lowering the standards to assure that enough women enter those professions. Same thing with affirmative action. Race and gender should never be the over riding reasons to hire someone. If they aren't qualified for the job, they aren't qualified for the job. While I find the article troubling, I will say I'm glad that the business owner wasn't tazed or shot.
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