Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Open sights on client DGR rifle- cosmetic or necessity?

Mine for shure...many are Irish....

Ingwe

These are lyrics learned over WAY to much Haig Pinch,

......written on bar napkins, in a place long ago,

....and far away.

Filthiest drinking song invented by man,....100+ verses.

All health , wealth, and good cheer to the Royal Canadian Black watch Troopers that taught me the few verses I remember.

On this solemn occasion, I'd like to read this one verse from "The Bull of Kerry Muir" over Lee24's bier.

" The village idiot he was there, and on the mantle he sat,
amusing himself by abusing himself , and catching it in his Hat"

Lee24, to a "T"

His departure calls up another verse, though:

" The village magician he was there, he held us all aghast,
he pulled his foreskin over his head, and vanished up his azz"

R.I.P., Lee.

GTC

I think you are being modest, but so be it.

Thank you again for the detailed explanation. Your description is very clear to me. I didn't know it was called the ball and dummy drill. I haven't tried it by myself and I don't have any dummy rounds. I guess I could make some. I always did it with a buddy and let him had me the rifle ready with or without a round.

It would be interesting to try it with a .22 and see if I flinch. Man, that would be embarrassing.

Lee, I throw out insults at you because it's fun to read how you respond and never answer direct questions regarding your non-existent weapons or credibility. So respond away, and we'll continue to insult you llike the village buffoon...jorge

yea! lee is putting people on ignore! does anybody really believe he is doing that? so, lee, you waste-of-a-life wannabe marine sniper, what do i have to say to get on the ignore list?

You know, I can only hope a guy in camp is after buffalo. Maybe I'll get to watch and if he gets gored over lack of open sights, I'll say--Toldja So!

But, I'm not cynical about this thread.

Stop, stop, it hurts my sides . . . . . . .

My kids are aking me why I am crying . . . . .

Too F'in funny . . . .

BMT

You can flinch with anything... trust me..... I found a horrible flinch after a long weekend of 3.5 inch 10 ga rounds one year... thought I had 3 in the gun but only 2... boy was "round" 3 an eyeopener... my buddy almost bust a gut and fell into the bay....

Wow, only got through a half of this thread...
For the record, I go ether way when it comes to sights, although I believe that a low powered scope is ideal for first shots on most game other than, say, Elephant super close up or follow up situations.
However what is best has little to do with it IMO.
Open sights are just great fun to hunt with, but you will miss opportunity's.

Ahh, those DG..

I'm in Ray's generation and grew up using irons. I wouldn't have a serious hunting rifle without irons. A deer rifle maybe but not any rifle for game that bits. I can't use them any longer due to macular degeneration but I can still see enough to hit something at 50-60 yards.with 2MOA accuracy.
As an aside, a buddy went to Texas hunting elk last year. One of his rifles had a good set of irons. He said he amazed the young guys shooting "minute of small rock" at 300 yds with irons.
They do work if you use 'em.

Irons work very well, its all I shot in competition.

That said there are so many reasons NOT to use irons unless they are the last option, and as a backup. I'll take glass every last time.

Hunting is entirely different from competition. In NRA or CMP Highpower competition, your target is a perfectly round black circle on a white background. The front sight post (usually) is the same apparent width as the black circle, and is sprayed with carbon black to eliminate the effects of sun angle. The rear sight is an aperture. The target (10 ring) is 6" wide at 200 yards (the black circle, the nine ring) is 13" wide). If you shoot bolt rifle instead of an AR, both the front and rear sights are adjustable apertures.

In hunting, "iron sights" mostly refers to open rear sights and a bead front. The front bead is bright, and often rounded. It's easy to make elevation errors by not putting the bead down in the rear sight the same way, or errors from how the sun shines on the front bead. The target is not a nice black circle and the aiming point is somewhat conceptual. The target is moving and, in case of a charge, is at least 6" in diameter at a range of 25 yards--or less.

In hunting, the issue is usually speed, not accuracy. Those who think iron sights are not good because they can't shoot small groups off the bench are deluding themselves.

Incidentally, I have shot 1" 5-shot groups off the bench at 200 yards with an iron-sighted AR15. But offhand, with a hunting rifle and open sights, 6" at 100 yards is more tha norm.

I posted but it didn't take so I'll try again...

I find it absurd that a good iron sight shooter couldn't make a killing shot on a buffalo at 200 or even 300 yards with his iron sights, just like he could with a scope..that is one big target btw...

I have shot many plainsgame and a few buffalo at 150 yds. to almost 200 yards with irons..I don't know who started the rumor that you always shoot buffalo at 25 yards thats just BS..Lots of buffalo are shot at extended ranges and no you can't always get closer..Few however are shot at over 150 but I have shot several at 200 and the furtherise was a stepped off 225.5 yards and that was my only instant in the dirt kill on buffalo. AJ Van Heerden PH, called him the Teapot bull, said he just tipped over on his nose like a teapot...:)

I am of the opinnion that a lot of these posts are by individuals that have actually never really tried irons and have made no effort to learn and are just talkin off the top of their head...I think they would be very surprised just how accurate iron sights can be if properly sighted in and with the right combo of front and rear..My preference is a V with a post that I take flush to the top of the V much like a pistol is used, its fast and accurate, every bit as good as a receiver sight...It is an old Texas Ranger trick, and thats why they were so deadly..

One other thing that comes to mind is for off hand shooting or running shots simply because one tends to grab at the trigger as the crosshairs come floating by the target with the damn magified wobble, so you yank the trigger in anticipation, and you miss. You cannot see this wiggle with irons. It works very well for me...An example of this I was at a big bore shoot in Oregon several years ago wherein I won 7 second places but no firsts shooting my iron sighted .375 against scoped rifles as I thought the whole shoot was iron sight only and had no scoped rifle to shoot. I was satisfied with that. I touched both of my shots on the running Lion at 100 yards, but an inch out of the 6 inch bull that was marked in with pencil and I couldn't even see it, but they were Lion killing shots...One of our posters here on 24 hr. and on AR was there, He has killed a large number of elephants with his iron sighted double rifles. Jim Brockman of Brockman Guns was there and Jim is an excellent iron sight shot. They both shoot very well indeed.

I am very comfortable with irons to 200 yards and beyond that would prefer a scope but wouldn't be totally anal about it..I would use what I had...

I suggest all the nay sayers, get out and have some fun, sight in there rifles just like they do with the scope, then practice a bit and add another deminsion to there shooting..Its fun guys, you will enjoy it, and be better for it.

I have already commented on this thread once, to the effect that if you haven't used irons much (or at all) that you're better off with a scope.

But if you have used irons, I'll go along with what Ray said. I have used irons in Africa out to about the same range he has--though on a red lechwe at 225 yards, not a buffalo. Have also shot some buffalo with irons out to 120 yards or so and they work. Have also used irons in North America on various species out to 350 yards (caribou) and am obviously comfortable with them. But if you aren't a scope is obviously better.

I do have back-up irons on some of my rifles but not all. If something goes wrong with the scope when you're a long way from a back-up scope then the day (or week) isn't lost. And I pretty much refuse to carry around a spare scope just in case it might be needed. Back-up irons are quite a bit handier!

JB, what do you find are the best setups for irons. Ray has described his setup as a v-notch with front post.

Do you have a favorite setup?

For dangerous game that's hard to beat.

I regularly use the same sort of set-up, but also a typical rounded notch with front bead, and an aperture rear with bead or post front. For most iron-sight hunting I like a white or gold front bead that's been filed flat at about a 45-degree angle away from the eye, but I am used to one and have found it helps for range estimation. It also shows up pretty

The big thing, as with any shooting, is to try a bunch of different stuff and see how it works for you.

You might like to consider a red fibre optic foresight as a good option. They make a helluva difference when you have to go into the thick stuff for an angry big 'n ugly.

You also need to get your sights set up properly. I'd highly recommend you set them to a six o clock hold as the best option.

I agree with both Mule Deer and Shakari, and I like both of their set ups with irons..I also like the peep/receicer sights as they are fast and accurate..I can't imagine a better set up than a fiber optic green or red 3/32 bead and an adjustable receiver sight, or a fixed steel peep with a .125 hole to look through. Irons are so basic that most any of them work well enough, so try some and take your pick. I don't like those huge front beads that pop up, they just cover too much animal to suit me and they are not very accurate because of that, and I feel they are too much of a good thing, dramatically overdone..I like the 3/32 bead or the NECG gold faced post and those Fiber Optics if you can find one that fits your front sight, and that can be a problem sometimes. Hopefully they will become popular enough to give us more choices in size etc.

My issue with irons comes from where I hunt. Often in thickets, while killing a deer quickly with them is not an issue, often identifying the correct deer and or not seeing vines etc.. in the way is the issue.

I used a 0 power dot one year and had a bad mistake never seeing brush between us. And I've had deer indentified with binocs switch places on me as they mill around such that I could not tell the difference unless going back to binocs again.

Those 2 issues lean me to scopes even though I can shoot irons on game just fine and have done so quite a bit, even out to past 500 yards with irons on deer.

Its not just the fact that you can or cannot use them.

As to speed, I've never had any speed issues getting on something with a scope as long as the gun and scope are set up correctly. Certainly no more difficult or any slower than irons.

The comments on seeing wobble vs not, well thats a mental game that can be overcome easily if folks put any effort into it.

Jeff

The only problem with fiber-optic sights is that some of them aren't too rugged, though that is much less common than it used to be.

One really fiber-optic iron sight is the NECG express sights that have both a fiber-optics fron bead and also a fiber-optic dot in the middle of the rear express sight. Even in dim light it's really easy to be be able to aim with them: just put the front bead on top of the rear bead. I had D'Arcy Echols put s set of these on my .375 H&H and really like 'em.