Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Why do we do this? Or, our elk hunt 2004

Time to lighten up a bit......

Sheister, enjoyed the story!

Sheister, good story and good job as the elk IS in the freezer whether it went as tidy as perhaps you or others might wish.

Don't know nuthin' about elk hunting, hope to gain some practical experience some day. But I am continually amazed at how different animals of the same species react to being hit by bullets. Have seen more than a few bears dropped with one shot, have seen just as many or more go like crazy after a well placed bullet or two. It just defies logic sometimes, but practical experience should have prepared me for it.

Long before I got really serious about big game hunting, I had seen both extremes in a less lethal scenario. You can hit one guy on the chin and down he goes....lights out, bye, bye,....... have hit a similar sized guy with the same punch, almost exact location, pretty close to the same fps (that's fist per second <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) and he just grins at ya! (God that turned into a rough night) My experience tells me that no matter how well you place your first shot, you better be prepared for either extreme or anything in between. Course it's easier to do the high fivin', did you see him drop in his tracks than the other end of that spectrum. But if a guy is going to hunt much he had better be prepared for it. Glad you and your son weren't found wanting when the finish up part entailed the nasty stuff. 1ak

Sheister-Good story.I love the Father son hunting story's.As far as the shot goes-I think 1akhunter somed it up pretty well.I have seen them drop in seconds or on the spot but I have also seen them run down into the nastiest hole around to finally die from a good solid hit that has put others down and out on the spot.Maybe there not "Bullet Plated" but some just refuse to do the logical thing and die where the fatal shot happened.

Congratulations on you and your son's Elk.

Jayco

Man, I just tuned in. What the hell is Coyote Hunter talking about? He'd better stick to coyotes, since it appears that they are more actual challenge to kill than a 1-shot elk. What a bunch of B.S. I've taken both lungs out of bulls and had them go 4-500 yards. I could tell that they'd had a reasonably dramatic "drop in blood pressure" by the tidal wave that hit me upon opening up the chest cavity. Incidentally, I've seen Sheister make shots that were unheard of for the average shooter, and make three hits within 4-5 inches of each other in the vitals on a running elk at 350 yards across a canyon.


Sheister left a few things out that I'd like to address. First of all, he didn't mention that the first 150 yards of that hell-hole were an angle of about 60 degrees, moss and snow covered rock with a touch of mud so your clothes and face would be dirty for good measure. About half way up that part, we had to flop the animal over to free it from some brush. The flop, combined with the sudden surge from the tension on the stretched rope, gave this elk the idea that he should have one more good kick left. His rear hoof flew over and caught me right on the edge of the eye socket. After checking on how many stitches I would need, I spent a minute trying to figure out whether I was still standing or not. I told my son and Joe that these were tears of joy over the morning's success. Shortly after that, the elk tried the same move on Joe. Joe did a header down the last 30 feet of hillside we had just scaled. Looked pretty funny, although I'm sure it hurt. He was head-downhill in a position that didn't even allow him to get up. I thought he would end up back down in the creek before he'd be able to aim his body uphill again. I asked my son to shoot the elk a couple of more times so he'd lay off of us. The next hurdle was a 15 foot vertical road bank that the animal had to come up. I was going to put money on the fact that the little capstan winch would stall out and eventually explode before it would pull this elk over that piece of rock. Sheister calmly replid, "It'll make it, no problem". I thought, "yeah, right...". I was mistaken. Pretty impressive machine. Thank God we had reached the flatter part of the trip when the drive wheel broke. We undid the rope from around its neck(which was now 5 1/2 feet long) and snout. The tension from the rope had pulled the hide on its heqad so hard that the elk now looked more like a Shar Pei. Anyway, meat in camp opening day is a good thing. Turns out to be the only one taken this trip. Lot of cows and some beautiful (26-28") bucks were seen. All in all, great trip.

Good story Sheister, don't let him get under your skin. Flinch

I'v shot a few and seen quite a few shot,both lung and heart shots, that weren't aware of this. How can we get the word out? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Great story and now I'm really looking forward to elk season! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Those winchs easily pay for themselves and more on a pull like that.

Jeeeeeesus H. Christ guys! I'm gonna have to come up and show you fellas how to bone out a critter one of these days! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Two trips for two guys coulda been an easy 50-ish pounds per guy per trip, including the weight of the pack! Of course, I'm old enough to realize "my" way ain't always the right way and there are many, many ways to skin a cat and "when in Rome," etc. (grin).

Respectfully Sir, Tons of elk have been killed with 30-06 and 7mag with 1 shot in the right place- bigger bullets don't make any difference. Truth being, alota lead went downrange for those 2 elk- not neccessarily bragging rights but, I guess some folks enjoyed your story. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Listen to Coyote and maybe you guys will learn something. Clearly most of you are pretty clueless.

If somebody like Coyote Hunter didn't step up and point out the obvious mistakes, how would most of you learn?

Nice story. Glad the Father & Son had fun. But when you post a story, you should be man enough to accept the helpful feedback - like that from CH.

Blue Spruce,
Maybe I missed it, but I coulda swore they were only shooting at one elk! Course if you happen to be seeing double that could explain a miss <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Oh to the last poster dla or whatever, I see by your posts you are new to the campfire! Welcome and FO&D! That's about as thinly veiled of a suckup as I've seen in awhile, impressive for outa the gate. Now the rest of you know nuthin's pipe down will ya, so's we can learn from the guru <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Although I've heard if a man's of mind to, he can always place his shot in the right spot and drop 'em in their tracks.......



ON THE INTERNET <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yup ... if they're still standing ... " I'm still shootin ".

There's too many options available for a wounded elk to escape into deep reprod cover (or be shot by another hunter), to allow an elk that is hit, but still standing and still in-sight to get a free pass. Even snow on the ground isn't a guarantee of an easy tracking job. Picking the right tracks out of the thirty or fourty sets of tracks where a herd may have fed and meandered around, is waaaay different than shooting/following one up in desert sage brush or solo on an open hillside.

If ya only hunt petting-zoo's, gathering-up your Elk may be easier, but I've spent a lifetime Elk hunting the steep, wet, slickery, timbered, snowy, foggy confusing canyons of N.E Oregon and once the decision was made to harvest this Spike, y'all did the right thing(s).

Now, as for the comical story about the capstan winch/line ... vs boning-out and packing the elk out on packboards .... I completely agree with Muley Stalker. On the previous weeks exploit with "Spike" (John), he could just look at a skinned-out elk quarter laying out on a log, visualize the bone(s) inside and with a few deft knife-cuts, we were soon launching completely trimmed elk leg-bones, over our shoulders, down into the canyon bottom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />... like the best kilt-wearing Scotsman at a Highland Games ... tossing the camber.

... S.B.

He shoulders the leg bone .... approaches the line ... Nice toss ! ... 42 feet ..

8Ball, I'm trying not to wet myself after your post. The part about asking your son to shoot the elk some more so he'd lay off of us and the part about the elks neck being, by now, 5 1/2 feet long just hit my funny bone. The fact that no one got killed makes this story funny as all get out.

Perhaps you should have MS come up next time ... although I'd pay a lot to witness the same routine again.

1ak, you crack me up! Whenever you see someone with next to no posts jumping in something like this, kinda makes you suspect someone might be coming to their own defense???? Maybe someones wife or girlfriend jumping to the rescue???

Seriously, eventually things don't go as planned and when that happens, the men are separated from the boys. Sheister and company got it done and whether the follow ups were needed or not is irrelevant when the animal is still on its feet. I'll take a few extra pounds of bloodshot loss over 160+ pounds of lost meat as the alternative.

SB, that's the perfect visual! Grinning here, as I'm guilty of trying to duplicate it myself -- still working on my technique though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Ain't that the truth. Anyone who's never missed or had to track something is either a lier or hasn't done much hunting.

Sheister -

First, let me apologize for sidetracking your thread. It was a good read even if I suspect the shot accuracy may have been weak. I agree with the "shoot until they are down" philosophy, regardless of how many shots it takes. You did a number of things right, including leaving your son as a spotter while you found the elk and getting it out under difficult circumstances.

Others here attest to your shooting ability, and if I recall correctly you took 3 shots while your son took 5. It may well be that his skill might benefit more from long range practice than yours.

Let me add that I have placed two shots into the much smaller lung area of an antelope from 300 yards - without the desired results. He went down but kept his head up. It took me 20 minutes to circle around a hill for a closer shot. He stood up and attempted to walk but a heart shot stopped him. While that sounds like 3 shots total, it was 5. I misjudged the distance at 400 yards instead of 300 and the first two shots were over his back. The bullets were Barnes 7mm 160g XLC's and I was very disappointed in the results. As a result of this experience I took the same advice I offered you - I got a laser range finder and spent more time at the 300 and 400 yard ranges. And I changed bullets.

Oops, right, only 1 elk was shot.....despite all the chest thumping here, there were 2 posters that provided some info that could be helpful. Of course insults ensued as a response. Nobody ruined anybody's thread. When a person posts a story, it is subject for scrutiny and others can at least learn, if the poster is not receptive. I learned some things about hunting, and about the posters who provided the insults.

1akhunter -

dla and I were both frequent posters at the Marlin forums before they were shut down. Now we spend more time at marlinowners.com than here. I've watched his posts for 2-3 years and we rarely agree on anything. One thing I will say for dla, though, is that he has his opinions and sticks to them, and I have to respect him for that. "Suckup"? I hardly think so.

Somebody's got to keep the bullet manufacturers in business!!

What's Spike's line..Keep bangin til the meats hangin...

Congrats on a freezer full...

When do they let you guys kill something with some headgear?

Mike

Coyote,

Point taken! dla, I sincerely apologize, the guy you appeared to be sucking up to says you ain't a suckup! So......it must be so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

To Coyote and dla both, you're both probably great guys and good outdoorsmen and since this whole gig started with the premise from "your perspective" on trying to help someone be a better hunter or marksman without it being solicited by your intended recipient. Let me offer a little unsolicited advice on how to be a better "teacher or helper"

1. If you really thought Sheister needed help you coulda pm'ed with your suspicions of his lack of shooting prowess and asked for more details instead of ASS U ming you know just what his problem is. Little Johnny will probably absorb more knowledge if the teacher tries to help him at his desk instead of making him stand in front of the class and pointing out his shortcomings, while looking down her nose at him. Valuable teaching aid, you might want to practice it before you go teaching again.


2. You've had 7 elk kills in the last 5 years, good on ya, I like a guy that can get the job done! In the last 10 years I've been in on over 50 caribou kills, lotsa one shot drops, few that took multiple shots, sometimes due to the shooter, sometimes due to the bou. And strangely enough 3 or 4 that traveled a long ways after taking what turned out to be a lethal hit! One in particular that comes to mind because of this thread, only took one bullet due to terrain and me calling what looked to be a good shot, sure enough when we found him along ways from where I thought he'd be and opened him up his lungs were a wreck, yeah it surprised me and I still don't know why it happened but I saw it with my own eyes. You might be surprised what you see when you ain't the shooter and just looking through glass to see if the client made a good hit or needs to follow up or needs you to shoot.

Sheister coulda told us any dang thing he wanted about his hunt, my guess is, he's probably experienced his share of one shot kills, maybe not, but from my perspective I like a guy to lay the cards on the table, here's what happened. Warts and all! The truth ain't always pretty but it is the truth. It appears to me that guys that have "actually" hunted and shot with Sheister have a fairly high degree of respect for his shooting skills. He posts a story on this thread and you see fit to give the poor dweeb some pointers, sorry bud, but it seemed more condescending to me than instructional. dla comes on with post #4 and says basically "you guys are clueless, how else are you morons supposed to learn if guys like Coyohunter don't step up to the plate".

I don't care how many times you and he have disagreed on, I'd have to go look and see but I'm fairly certain it says 24 hr at the top not marlinwhatever.com, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what I think it is? Yep you got it........ a suckup! Now go back and read my opening paragraph, see anyone can post anything on the Internet, don't necessarily mean it's so.

I'm not gonna turn this into our personal flame war, this is my final point, it seems to me that you heard something outside, opened the door and chunked a rock at it. Now you're surprised and hurt that someone threw a rock back and broke out yer window! No hard feelings on my part, just call em like I see em, you probably do too. Even though we're looking at the same car wreck we both think the other driver's at fault! keep whacking them yotes, that's good for everyone (ceptin the yote of course) 1ak

1akhunter -

If I understand your position correctly, dla is a "suckup" because he agrees with me, but you're not even though you are making Sheister's arguments for him?

When Sheister posted on a public forum he invited comments to his post, whether he (or you) agrees with them or not. If he did not want comments HE should have been the one to go the Private Message or email route.

Sheister's initial response to my first post indicated that he is not particularly responsive to the suggestion that his or his son's shots may have been more effective had they been better placed, but he only claims two hits in the lungs out of 8 shots taken. Where did the others hit? Nor has Sheister ever commented about his long range practice even though invited to do so. There are a lot of other "Little Johnny"s out there and they can come to their own conclusions.

As to "Valuable teaching aid", I guess it applies to me but not to you?

Yes, my buddy and I have taken 7 elk in the last 5 years. Four were mine and I watched on the other three. I've also had the chance to watch a number of other elk, deer and antelope taken over the last 20 years. I provide those numbers not to show that I'm the Great White hunter but to suggest that I am not totally without experience, either. I am very well aware that other's, particularly guides, see much larger numbers taken.

Yes, Sheister told his story with "Warts and all" and I respect him for doing so. By "Warts" we are both referring to the number of apparently ineffective shots taken, are we not? If a member of my hunting group banged away ineffectively at big game I would make the same suggestions to them that I did for Sheister - more practice at long range, get a laser range finder, and consider changing bullets. As pointed out in a previous post, I took that advice myself after banging away ineffectively at an antelope. Some spectacular coyote kills at ranges up to 500 yards had me thinking I was doing OK on my long range shooting and range estimation -- problem was I was using a very different rifle, and the laser showed just how wrong I was on range estimation.

Yes, anyone can post anything on the Internet. I provided the references to the Marlin forums (now defunct) and marlinowners.com forums so that interested parties could do minimal research to verify my comments about dla and myself. You chose not to, which brings to mind the following: "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Like direwolf says over on the marlinowners forum, in a thread about this one, "Calling DLA a "suckup" is like saying Attila was mild mannered."

No, I'm not surprised that there are those here who disagree with my position, although I was surprised at some of the vitriol expressed. No matter, I stand by my comments.