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I just heard that some insurgent terrorists are shooting wounded marines. Now that is low. Cutting off the heads of journalists and aid workers isn't bad enough, now they can't even conform to the rules of war. What are they - Japenese?

I just e-mailed this question to Bill O'Reilly at Fox News:
He didn't show the Abu Graib photos but did show part of the video of the Marine shooting the wounded Falluja terrorist.

Errr....it seems in at least one case, we're doing the same. (I am not judging or condemning that incident).

In my book and this is IMHO - shooting a wounded individual is not the same as ashooting a wounded prisioner. From what I am hearing the marine who shot the Iraqi situation - the Iraqi had not surrendered, therefore he is still a threat. How many medals have been given out for guys doing amaizing acts of heroism while wounded?

Now if this Iraqi had his hands up and a white flag in one hand then yes major problem there.

If thats me there and I am wounded I do not surrender (I have no expectation of keeping my head - may as well fight to the death) and yes then you would have an Iraqi killing a wounder person.

As I understand it this Iraqi was playing dead - not surrendering - pretty much means to me he was hopeing to join the fight later. What that Marine did may have just saved the lives of the reporter and the brothers in his squad.

Now you have Marines out there questioning if its ok to shoot somebody because that guy may be hurt (yet isn't surrendering).

Funny the media that is trying to fry this Marine had no problem with Kerry chasing down a young teenager and shooting him in the back as the kid ran away - heck Kerry got a medal for that.

To be fair I haven't seen the video - this is from what I am hearing from friends who have seen it, plus based on responsed from people I know who have been in combat.

I did see the video.
None of us can armchair the situation, because we saw only a small tunnel vision of what happened.
Who knows what the marines had just been through, who had shot at them, who had died, etc...there is just so much to the situation.
I feel he probably made a bad mistake (especially on video <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />), and it deserves an investigation. But judge or condemn him I cannot.

Andrew, where did you get the idea that the insurgents were shooting wounded prisoners (if that's what you were implying)?

The Marine did exactly the right thing. Any insurgent attempting to imploy any deception must be treated as a threat and immediately neutralized. These depraved jihhadists have blown themselves up under white flags, booby trapped bodies and committed all kinds of deporable acts to kill our troups. Any question of intent regarding the insurgents must be answered with lethality. They have defined the rules:none, now we must apply them. If that Arab feigning death would have had a grenade in hand or in reach, the whole squad could have been killed or maimed. That was not a chance this young man was willing to take and I applaud him for his action. It is not easy to kill as he did and now he has to live with that, but it is necessary under the circumstances our fine young men face.

Matt - I was responding to the original post. As to not surrendering (was this what you mean?) I have seen nothing from the insurgency to make me believe I would live if I were to be taken prisoner by their side, there for I would fight to the death- I ain't gonna make it anyway - may as well take as many with me as possible. Noway I want my wife watching the news only to see me getting beheaded. I would much rather have her just know I was killed in the line of duty - in a battle not in the cellar of some house by 3 cowards and a knife.

BTW - there is a petition going around to support this Marine. Here

My wife and I had this conversation when I asked her if she would mind if I went over there. Thats where the "rather just know you were dead than seeing you beheaded" came from.

That bears repeating. Couldn't have said it better, myself.

In fact, this thread should have been locked after RickyD's response. What else can be said?

RSY

It was a great shot.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> good add on WMacD

To judge that Marine and his action fairly and justly as his peer, one would have to
� take the same training and instruction that he took
� rack-up the same amount and kind of combat experience
� operate under the same orders as his
� see a buddy die the day before from a booby-trapped dead terrorist
� get shot in the face the day before
� be there to face the same situation
� have to make the same decision in the same brief interval

That's all.

Simple.

Hannity.com has the more of the vidio than is being shown on the news.

As Army infantry I have always been taught and taught my men that the first time you sweep an objective you should shoot every"body" as you go through. If you sweep your objective once, then go back you must give ad to the enemy wounded. That's why you have the support element sweep an obj after the assualt teams and before you send out you epw search and you ad and litter teams. Ie; there are no wounded and you have not violated the rules of combat. If you watch the vidio the marine doing the shooting has just entered the build, which sounds like for the first time (which should be legal). That being said, be smart about who is with you and what you do. The media should not see real combat, they only want to hear how evil our marines and soldiers are and how innocent the islamic terrorist are. Therefore CYA.
If I was a Battalion Commander I would arrest the reporter for sedition and aiding the enemy. What a crock of [bleep].

Somebody should shoot the newsies, I know I was temped a time or two!
The golden rule: Payback is a BITCH!

"Somebody should shoot the newsies...."

Early one morning after an all-night overseas flight, I got off the 747-SP at JFK and had no time to waste getting over to Newark or LaGuardia for my flight home. As I came out of Customs, carrying two big and obviously heavy bags, the entire floor ahead was blocked by a small army of newsies clearly expecting some celebrity. Not one of them made any move to let me walk through the crowd.

So I just headed for one of 'em and stared through him as if he weren't there, and I didn't slow down from my rapid walk. When I got close, a startled look of alarm came suddenly across his face. When I got to where he'd been, he wasn't. I had plenty of room to walk through without my bags brushing against anybody.

I made it over to the New York Helicopter counter � then after a short chopper flight, made my flight to Phoenix � with not much time to spare.

You know, what REALLY cheezes me off (other than our own liberal media) is that the whole Muslim word is upset over a wounded combatant being shot in a mosque, but have no problem with other Muslims be-heading prisoners.

It ought to soon come to everyone that this is a war, and to win it, we need to quit being so squeamish and start busting some towel wearing heads.
7mm

Well, the lay of the land around here is pretty clear.

Nevertheless, let me just say for posterity that I am appalled and horrified by the two (two, not one) videos I've seen of US Marines "finishing off" wounded Iraqis, both of whom were quietly bleeding to death and neither of whom posed any reasonable threat at all.

Let me also say that although appalled and horrified, I am not surprised. I predicted this sort of thing back when Baby Bush sent the troops to Iraq, and I expect to see more of it. And it's not because I'm a hater of the military.

I'll make an analogy. A year or so ago, I was being used very badly at work. I was not being given any of the kind of work I was good at. Just the opposite: I was being given work I wasn't any good at and had no training for, and was pressed to do it at (what I thought was) insane speed. As might have been predicted, I ended up making a lot of mistakes, having rock-bottom morale, and getting myself into quite a bit of trouble.

Similarly, the US military is not being used in Iraq to do the kind of work it is good at. Instead, it is being used for tasks for which it was not designed and for which it has no (or at least insufficient) training and equipment. Therefore, one must expect the same sort of results.

The difference is that I was given a computer keyboard and expected to type the right commands instead of the wrong commands, while a soldier is given a rifle and expected to shoot the right people instead of the wrong people. When I screw up with a computer keyboard, I might be able to get my company mentioned on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, but I'm probably not going to be able to commit any large-scale (or even small-scale) murder.

There's also the fact that the original unprovoked invasion of Iraq was morally indefensible, which means that in order to justify it, more morally indefensible acts (such as bombing an entire city full of people, shooting indiscriminately into occupied houses, picking off civilians swimming the river to get away, anything-that-moves ROEs, and so on) are being committed. Abu Ghraib was just the beginning, and this "finishing off the wounded" business is another small step. We're going to see American war atrocities on the order of the My Lai massacre and Tiger Company if those folks aren't brought back out of there Real Soon Now.

Please don't feel that you have to tell me what an anti-American, pro-terrorist, troop-hating coward I am. I already know just what you're going to say--believe me, I've heard it many times already--and I'm sure you have more productive things to do with your time. I'm just posting this here so as to capture the date and have "I told you so" ammunition when the opportune moment comes.

I find it hard to believe that there are actually people in this country who, when we send our boys into a place to kill people, that they are offended when our boys kill people. I have to agree with Ken on this one, we don't know the whole story, and the Marine did what he thought necessary.

I was against the invasion of Iraq, but I am also a realist. We're there now, and the only way to get out with any crediblity is to finish the job, and help in the rebuilding.

The sad thing is that this young man will be sold down the river of political expediency so as to prove to the world how just and fair we are. Meanwhile, the insurgents will continue to use the dead and wounded for booby traps, behead civilians, and hide behind their own citizens during firefights.

If anyone's interested, Reuters website has raw, unedited footage of the operations in Iraq (click on the "television" link). Once you see the tactics of the insurgents, you will understand the futility of an undisciplined militia going against a professional military.

Barak...You are entitled to your opinions, which I fully read, every time. I could not disagree with you more, whether it be your cop-hating, your Bush-bashing, or your erroneous assessment of the Iraqui war/war on terrorism.

I find your attitude toward this unfortunately video-ed (but in my opinion, entirely justifiable) killing of a wounded terrorist, which the soldier had no prior knowledge of apparently, in an extremely tense, instant judgement type cse indefensible considering one of your prior posts about the guy that repeatedly rammed you with his car.

In my opinion, that soldier was far more justified doing what he did, than what you did, and I think you were justified, tho your actions are not what I would have done. I may well have done, however, exactly what that young soldier did, with the same training and in the same situation. Better safe than 6 foot under!

Had the journalist been any sort of fair, he would have turned the tape over to higher military command with a statement of concern, and kept a copy for further use, as needed, and not immediatly filed it. I do realize that time is of the essence in "news", but I think his desire for a sensationalized story outweighed his fairness and objectivity. Be it also noted, that he did go into considerable detail as to the kind of situation and stress those soldiers were dealing with, which HIS higher-uppers largely buried in small print, if reported at all.

You might consider also that Al Jazzirra has this tape virtually on a loop, 24/7 while they have yet to show the execution of the Red Cross lady, who for 30 years did nothing but good for Iraquis, while this justifiably-shot terrorist, was simply scum.