Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting MT Game Damage Harvest

VarmintGuy - you need to get your story straight.

I do not doubt that a group of hunters killed a group of elk resulting in some gut piles that you saw. Unfortunately you can find a similar example of that in most states. Colorado has migration corridors (gauntlets) where herds are ambushed legally nearly every year in the same location (usually not as large as you describe). Colorado also has primitive ones (gauntlets) where the ground is loaded with spear points and buffalo skulls. It is a huge jump to go from one of these corridors or regions to conclude that an entire state is that way.

At various times you blame the weather, the wildlife dept, ranchers, wolves, damage control hunts themselves, for this occurence. You've gone even further into you rant by asserting alternately that the damage control hunts are responsible for the firing line scenario, but then detailing game management attempts to stop it. Which is it?

Here is the bottom line.
Damage Control Hunts are a nuisance for wildlife departments but they have to conduct them. They have an obligation to respond to agricultural damage but they have a difficult situation in that they also have a lot of pressure from their best customers to provide a hunting opportunity. They lose a lot of money providing damage control hunts and it would be far easier for them to simply cull animals. PR is very important to these departments - though at times you wouldn't know it. This much is guaranteed - they are never going to create or condone this sort of mass slaying scenario. If you can't understand that then get someone to explain it to you.

You make it sound as though there was no such thing as a damage control hunt before ranchers began refusing access and before wolves were reintroduced.
I'm sure there has been AG damage since there has been ranches
I'll bet ranchers have denied hunting access since the first ones were established.
I'm sure there have been damage control hunts for decades now in virtually every Western state.

Damage control hunts are always initiated more then a year in advance. It is way more involved than some elk hanging around corrals. AG damage has to be proven and the losses calculated. The AG dept has to coordinate with the Wildlife dept. Budget for hunt coordinators has to be established and a fair way of administering the tags. There is a lot more involved than a guy waving a pen.

VarmintGuy - I am especially interested in your assertion that MOST of the hunting in MT is in the form of these 'firing line' or 'run the gauntlet' hunts. I find that incredible. Please provide proof of that, and please no more 'I talked to', or 'my good friend' or other conjecture.

When you have the need to state "I KNOW what is going on!" that is about as big a red flag as when someone says "Trust Me".
Do you even live in MT?
You have sucessfully contributed the stupidest post here in quite some time now.

Didn't that actor Steven Siegal own that ranch at one time?

MontanaPH,

I participated in one of the late game damage hunts in the Madison last year. While it wasn't much of a hunt, nor did I expect it to be, it was a good experience and a lot of fun. I actually put in about four miles on foot, almost had to pack an elk out, and saw a pack of 13 wolves, which I found pretty neat. They spread the hunters out enough that there was no way a "FIRING LINE" could have broken out.

Good luck,
Carl

Carl is absolutely right, there isn't always a firing line.

The closest thing I've seen to that is down by Cameron on the state section right off the highways, now that can get plumb ugly. But other than that I've seen a lot worse rodeos on crowed public lands than I've ever seen on the late hunts.

A good friend of mine has been called the last couple years for the late Madison hunts. Both times he told the rancher the only way he'd come is if he would be allowed to go up on the mtn and hunt them there. He told the rancher he didn't want to be a part of the flats. Rancher was cool with it and both times he got an elk and both times he had good hunts.

Anyone who thinks that the late hunts are always firing lines just hasn't been out enough.

Dober

Yeah Segal bought it in June of 93, then he sold it in 98. It's changed hands 4 times since I've been around Montana (78,93,98,10) and that's why to me it's talked about a bit, I mean that is a ton load of movement for a ranch of any size! It's a good sized property (though not a big one) and when they move (sell) people like to talk about it.

Now back to the regular channel of late elk hunts...and firing lines and such..

Dober

I figure its up to Montanans to fight about Montana's wolves (finally-thankfully) and seasons and setch, but I thought I should point out that the Varmint moved there from the west coast about 12 years ago, to make a living off the state's game; thus the hatred of wolves and unguided "firing-line" hunts. Understandable, but a bit slanted, and....well, I'll leave it at that.

I think the Sun is special because if its size relative to its proximity to Yellowstone (18K acres), and the Madision River, coupled with the incredible number of elk that can be found wintering on it. That and its closeness to one of the coolest towns in Montana, Ennis, and its situation in one of the most spectacular mountain valleys in Montana.

Just one man's opinion... now back to fighting about killing elk. Sheesh

Visit almost every year, since about 1970! Love that brown trout spawning area below bear trap canyon....great fishing all the way up the valley into the park...hell, I love it all...well maybe sans the bicyclers with skin-tight clothing and helmets....whats with that, anyway? Modern cowboys?

The only reason I know anything about that ranch, because the guy I hunt elk with was born there. His father was a ranch hand there in the 50s-60s. I was told it was the largest ranch in Montana at one time. I really enjoy that Madison valley when I come out.

VarmintGuy,
I personally REFUSE to partake in these "RUN THE GAUNTLET" and "FIRING LINE" type Hunts!!!
The neccessity for these "Hunts" is caused by ranchers who won't allow Hunters on their places in the regular season and the Elk NOW herd up on private ranches and not neccessarily the ranches that do not allow the Hunting in regular Hunting seasons!
Reason #2 for these damage control Hunts is the vast over-population of Wolves that have the Elk (in the last 7 to 10 years - depending on the area!) completely stressed out and all out of the norm for the time of year and relating to weather (snow) conditions!
Out of the norm being they are where the Wolves hesitate to caper!
Result "damage control Hunting"!
Your extreme ineptitude is exceeded only by your immortal penchant for irrationality and generalization.
I have been living and hunting in MT since you were shaking down Jr High kids for dime bags of weed wherever you came from.
Yes wolves are problem here and I do not lie having them around. But they are not the only issue when it comes to elk populations and control. You feel free to spout off about how you have access to private lands to shoot varmints, but have the audacity to blame private landowners for ownership of elk population problems. Do you even read the stuff you write? Many landowners do not even see an elk on their property until well after the general hunting season has closed.
Get informed or STFU.

Dave

PS. Learn how to spell or at least use spell check. Proper use of capitalization would also make your postings not be such a joke. While you are at it bite the bullet finish up that GED class ya freaking putz.

HEY, let's not get carried away with facts... irrational rants are so much more interesting (grin)...

+2...

Dober

I agree. It is more fun to read the misinformed diatribes some of these mouth breathers come up with. That one guy in particular does tend to raise my BP with his BS. I should know better than to respond to that crap after attending a superbowl party....

Elk are a problem here and there is no easy answer. I am convinced that elk are the biggest problem we have in SW MT with respect to the decline in mule deer populations. Say all you want about lion predation, but being outcompeted for winter range by elk sure seems to me to be the bigger issue. We have been hammering lions for over 10 years in my neck of the woods and the mulies are still on the wane. We also shoot a lot of cow elk but are losing ground there as well.

Dealing with the public during any kind of late or damage hunt on private land requires extra resources and just because you can see a bunch of elk does not mean your average weekend warrior is going to be able to kill one. Especially when they have been shot at all season, or in some cases/areas where you have hunted cows consistently over the years and killed most of the stupid ones.

I saw a herd of about 100 elk on the east rim of the lower Madison Valley above Greycliff the other day. Damn things are getting to be like ground squirrels. Too bad we can't shoot them the same way, but the stench would get a bit nasty I recon.

Gee,
Aint no fun when they pee their pants and run away. Guess I will need to temper my approach to string 'em along a bit.

Daveinmt, I'll add my $0.02 by taking your comment slightly out of context and say: I am convinced that people are the biggest problem we have in SW MT.

mea culpa
Ya got me there.

Hey, on the upside, I saw a ground squirrel yesterday.
I'm loading up small centerfire stuff that I should have been pecking away at all winter. Takes that first confirmed gopher sighting to get me motivated. Gonna break out my Ruger No.1 Bee this year. Its been gathering dust in the back corner of a safe since the Clinton administration.