Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Great Plains barrel question

Have a .50 cal percussion Lyman I traded for a while back just to shoot some and see how I like it. Did a barrel wipe before loading that turned into a barrel scrubbing. Had rust. Groups with synthetic black powder and round ball ran around 4" or so at 50 yds. Took it to the Charlotte Gun, Jewelery and Old Military Clothing Show last weekend and a guy that apparently knew muzzleloaders well gave it a once over and pronounced it in need of a rebore if I wanted it to shoot decent. So my question is who does that? Is is worth it to have a .54 cal Great Plains? Is there anyone around central NC that would like it to follow you home? Opinions appreciated.

I would try and save it...

1) Clean and degrease the barrel down to the bear metal.

2) Get some fine automotive valve lapping compound and put it on a TIGHT patch.

3) Change patches about every 10-15 strokes and spray out the barrel with gun scrubber between lapping patches using a dry patch to remove the rest of the gun scrubber.

4) Once the barrel is a good as it gets try and find some very fine diamond lap like they use in the knife polishing industry. Do a few more tight patches with the diamond lap.

I had two Ruger #1s in .22-250 and .375 H&H rust up on me when they were clean and not one other gun in the chest rusted. AND I MEAN RUST so you could see down the bore or even get a shell in the chamber. After lapping the .22-250 which had been shooting .75" groups went to .3" groups...the .375 would then clover leaf rounds at 100..

Two years ago a friend failed to clean his stainless Knight ML after the season and it rusted up using 777 pellets. I lapped the bore as described above and it is shooting great again.

I have a Browning Mountain Rifle which looks just like your Lyman an lapped the barrel as I read an article stating that too sharp a rifling often cuts the patch on a patched ball causing accuracy problems. I lapped the barrel and my groups at 50 yards went from 5" to 2"....

Bob

Don't know what they'd charge but with a little shopping you can find a replacement barrel for a little over $100, to $130

Dan

Lyman barrels as I've found can be had for $150 or less. May just get one of those in a miniball twist and try the sucker again.

Anyone have any experience with a Great Plains Hunter fast-twist bullet barrel? That would provide more energy as well.

myself i find very few barrels in need of a re bore . doesn�t mean yours is not one of them .
dropping a bore light now a barrel and seeing lots of rust means very little frankly . its big deep pitting that will get you .
but even then what you see as large pits , may not be pits at all but rust staining around the true pit .
See rust blooms . Basically you get a small pit . That pit is the source . Then around the pit the rust spreads over the surface

RJM is correct IMO . But first what I would do is de rust the bore .
. Brownells sells a very, VERY good de rust / de blue . It gets the job done very well .
But Its spendy at 80 .00 a gal .
you do not want to get it on the outside of the barrel or it will remove the blue or brown .

Another choice that I have been using hear lately with rather good results is Evapo-rust. Its around 12 to 17 a gal depending on where you go .
Autozone carries it in quarts . But they charge the gal price for quarts .
You will not need a gal though .
again you do not want it on the outside of the bore . if you get some on it , wash it of quickly and do not let it stay or it to will start to remove the color

Take the barrel off the rifle , plug the nipple and fill the bore with Evapro-rust .
Let it stand over night then pour it back into the container � it can be used over and over again �
Now flush the barrel with cold water . You may have to take a brush to it .
Once that�s done run a few cleaning patches . If your still getting rust on the patches , do another soaking , flushing and cleaning .

Then take a look with a bore light . The black spots that you now see are areas of true pitting .
What you now see is the true tail and depicts what can or cannot be done .

There is this idea that any pitting of a bore ruins it and effects accuracy . And in theory it should . However in reality I have seen heavily pitted barrels that shoot very accurately when in fact there is not a good reason why they should .

Ok so now your down to the actual hard pitted areas . There should be no rust in the pits , the Evapro -rust has removed it ..

So now you can eather go the route that RJM has outlined . But if the pitting is alittle heavier then that . Fire lapping my be needed .
To fire lap , you use a conical impregnating OR replacing the lube with lapping compound .
What I use for lapping compound is automotive valve grinding compound �excluding center fire applications �
The reason is , I have found it very aggressive on hardened steel and even more so on muzzle loading barrels .
After each round you fire , clean the bore before you load a new round . Normally 3-5 shots can be needed depending on the existent of the pitting .
Fire lapping will remove all but the deepest pitting .

Now you can come back with a finer compound applied to the patch�s or conicals and polish up the bore more . Finish off with a paste of baking soda on you patch . Scrub the bore real well . Let it dry .

Clean things up by flushing the bore and flash channel with water .
What this step does is leave small amounts of soda in any pitting that�s left . This neutralizes any rust that may want to try and start growing and helps neutralize the acids in the carbonized powder fouling that will end up filling the pits over time ..

Now go out and work up a new load . This is a must to find your accuracy again . Basically the barrel is most likely going to like alittle different load then it did in the past .

If your shooting RB pick up your patches . Look for tears or burn through . If you find none then your accuracy is now a problem of your load . If your finding torn up patches with lots of burn through , then there is still pitting that�s ripping the patches apart .
That either means more lapping or a re-bore .

Today , a rebore is for the most part , going to cost you about the same cost , or alittle more then a new barrel .
Lapping is going to run you around 50.00 + Time .

Thanks RJ, Cap and all. Muzzie guy I met at the gunshow did say pits AND rust present. Should have made that clear. No doubt what you guys suggest shold work if the barrel is salvageable. Honestly though, I probably won't give that much labor to an iffy barrel. May give it a good soaking in penetrating oil followed by bore brushing and polishing with JB which I have on hand. Come to think of it I probably know where I can get some valve compound to use. After that if it don't shoot round balls the barrel is gone. If I keep the gun after that I'll just put some more money in it for a fast twist barrel. These are on Midway for less than $150. So like I said, thanks for the input. I'm obviously not muzzleloader literate and appreciate the education. Meanwhile if anybody within pick-up distance wants it knowing what it is I'll be glad to part with it for $175.

Oh, forgot. What about propellant? I've heard the old side hammers really like black powder better than substitutes. What do you guys use for round ball in the slow twist and Great Plains type bullets in the faster twist. Thanks in advance.

You heard wrong. Pyrodex and 777 work just fine in percussion muzzleloaders. (Flintlocks have issues with Pyrodex, but not percussion versions.)

Shootem, I picked up a T/C Renagade not long ago and the barrel was a mess. I sent it to Ed Rayl in WVa and had him ream it to a 62cal Smoothbore. It was $75 plus return shipping. It is alittle more if you want rifling. He could make it a 54 rifled with no problem or whatever you'd like with in reason

W.E.Rayl Inc
P.O. Box 91
Gassaway, West Virginia 26624
(304)364-8269

Good luck
Mark

Ed does good work to . but last i checked his prices were much higher .
but it never hurts to give him a call and see

I just mailed him a check this week...$89.15, $75 + Shipping.

cool good to know . i know with custom barrels he has right now aboput a year turn around .
im waiting on 3 .

Shootem. I a 777 and Pyrodex will work fine in a percusiion gun if thats what you have available. I myself am a goex person. I also have a Lyman GP 50 cal. I have used this for many seasons of hunting and competion shooting. I use 80 grains of 3f powder behind a pillowticking spitpatch with the 490 roundball. This has served me very well for both hunting and targets....Having killed several deer with my Lyman and this load I have carved the rib on entry through the heart and both lungs and shattered a rib on the other end on multiple deer. so I find that this load has plenty of penitration for hunting. Someone that uses the synthetic BP's may have some load info for you. Like I said I am partial to Goex and therefore do not have any load info for you on the others.
Hope this helps and happy shooting.