Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Protection handgun - ideas?

Besides an alarm system and firearms I have a remote control for two wall sconces and a strip of lights over my computer armoire in our living room. I have a remote clicker in the bedroom and it will turn the lights on from in our bedroom. The lights coming on may cause an intruder to look around for the source that turned them on and may give me an edge.

Good thought. Every advantage counts.

I'm going to dissent from the idea that a pump shotgun is "ideal" when compared to a handgun for home defense.

(1) The shotgun, even in pistol grip configuration, is large and heavy and could be impossible to mount/aim/hold on target depending on where you are when the attack begins. Here's an exercise: lie flat on your back in bed and try to mount a pump shotgun to engage a target at the foot of your bed.

(2) The pump shotgun requires both gross and fine muscle movements in order to operate; fine movements to operate the safety, slide release and load; gross movements to cycle the action. Both of these actions take time to master, and, for those not fully trained, can be easily botched under stress. (Note that this also applies to pistols; however, the act of loading a magazine and racking the slide on say, a Glock 17, is, to my mind, easier to learn than pushing shells into the carrier of an 870, pushing the slide release, racking the slide, then bringing the gun to bear.)

(3) Recoil, even with a 20 gauge, is a factor and affects both first shot effectiveness and repeat shots. Unless you have room to mount the gun your chances of achieving repeat shots with any accuracy go way down.

(4) The length of a shotgun makes maneuvering in hallways and around corners difficult. In my house the main hallway is quite narrow; even with an 18" 870 if I were caught facing the other way, I would have to dismount the gun in order to do a 180 degree turn. Think of executing such a turn in the tightest area of your home, then calculate how long it will take to remount the gun and engage the target.

In sum, I would recommend a high capacity handgun--9mm, 40, 10mm, 45--over a shotgun any day of the week and twice on Sunday. They can be managed by anyone who is strong enough to operate a firearm, can be employed from virtually any position--personally, I am more likely to be sitting or lying down when someone kicks my door open than I am to be standing, feet shoulder width apart, with my 870 at port of arms --and, perhaps most importantly, can be manuevered and brought on target even in very confined areas of the home.

First, make them buy their own guns. If they are interested enough to spend their own money, perhaps they'll actually be interested enough to learn how to use a gun.

I used to suggest stalking/DV victims go to Wally World and get an NEF Youth Model 20 ga. single shot, have it trimmed back to 18.5-in. and a big white bead installed. Then put a buttcuff on it with five rounds of buckshot. Then teach them how to run the gun. Even these days they'd have less than $150 in the gun, etc.

Nowadays I'm not opposed to a .410 with the modern 000 Buck loads; matter of fact my 17-year-old daughter has a Coachgun .410 loaded with 3-in. versions.

But upon reflection, I think perhaps the easiest most intuitive weapon for NDPs to use for home defense might be the ubiquitous Ruger 10/22, with a 25-round mag in it stoked wwith Stingers. Mount a piece of Weaver rail at the 9 o'clock, get a 1-in. Weaver ring and a SureFire Nitrolon and mount them on the rail.

Let them try variations on all those themes, maybe even take them to a rental range so they can try a variety of pistols, then let them pickwhat they want.

I also believe that one of the biggest issues, is how fast you can get to that weapon. A loaded shotgun nest to the bed is great in one sence but the pistol at hands reach is even faster. I have both next to my bed, no kids around just the wife and I. She has her pistol on the nightstand (.40cal Glock 22)and my pistol is a Glock 21-SF .45acp.

I agree that a shotgun with the long barrel is an issue if you have never learned how to clear a room or get around a corner. However, a pistol is not much better if you have not learned how to use it either for such a perpose.

I like the idea of the alarm coming on and the lights coming on too! Ghost Rings on a shotgun are of no use, just like iron sights in the dark. So perhaps we who have shotguns for home defense should check out a set of night sights for that gun.

One other factor I forgot to mention: try using a pump shotgun while talking on the phone with 911

Taurus Judge with .410, or a 4" K frame S&W in .357 or 38.

Use the pump shotgun, then dial 911.

Double Action shooting...if they can not hit the broad side of the house..from the inside..it is not their fault but the fault of the instructor not knowing how to a) do it themselves and/or b) not knowing how to teach the skill.

At the NRA Basic Pistol course at our local club both SA and DA shooting is taught. Up to 19 out of 20 students in a class with shoot better DA than single action with the correct instruction. Few if any of the students use SA fire for the rest of the revolver section even though they are given the choice.

And until one masters DA revolver shooting one will never shoot up to potential with a DA semi-auto, DAO semi-auto or one of the "safe action" pistols as all they are is a slightly easier to pull DA...

I taught CF Member RGS how to shoot DA over the phone. Since then he shoots all his DA revolvers DA in the bowling pin matches he competes in...and they start at 25 yards. Everyone else is shooting SA and he usually places in the top 3...


Bob

I agree. Some may not know that a Glock's trigger is best described as a really bad (though short) double action pull.

I agree with RJM about programming the software first. Firearm selection doesn�t even enter the game until after that. If the person is not motivated, don't waste your time. As far as guns go, my current philosophy is that I don�t own guns, I rent them. It doesn�t matter how many magazine articles or forum threads you read, there is no way to know if a gun is going to work for YOUR intended purpose until you (or the intended recipient) play with it. I now buy guns and play with them. If they don�t work for me, I send them down the road and get something else. You may lose some money, but you won�t lose all of it. Take your best shot and go from there. In doing so, you can put logic into it, but you have to try remove your own biases, if that is possible. You never know what gun different people will like. My wife likes DA revolvers, her Sig, 20 gauge pumps, and a Sauer hunting rifle. We went through a lot of stuff to get to that point. Those are good problems!

My experience has been that, if the bad guy sees any gun, he will describe it as "a big gun." If he doesn't recognize it as a gun, he will act as if you are unarmed. So, it has to be big enough or SHINY enough for him to know it's a gun. After that, it's all the same.

Bwinters: I know the answer to this one!
The correct answer is - a Glock Model 22 in caliber 40 S&W with high capacity magazine (15 rounds of man stopper munitions inside it!) equipped with either Tritium nights sights or a laser sight!
After 40+ years of observation and consideration this pistol is quick to get into action and virtually fool-proof even in the dark and not TO heavy of recoil!
I have used one "professionally" for nearly 20 years now and have as yet to find fault with it.
I have also depended on it for home protection during these nearly two decades and all members of the VarmintFamily (except the two grandkiddies) have been schooled in its use.
Best of luck with whichever you choose to upgrade to.
Yes "home invasions" are a chilling and sad fact of life anymore!
The first "home invasion" I ever had anything to do with occurred in north Seattle's Wallingford community back in about 1971.
Two Irish brothers were selling out and going back to the homeland. They had some expensive stereo equipment advertised in the local paper. The first day two "urban youths" (Negroes) responded to the ad and yet seemed NOT to know much about the equipment.
One of the Irish brothers was suspicious and went and loaded his 45 model 1911 (with hardball military style ammo) while his brother let the "urban youths" out of the house.
Sure enough less than an hour later just at dark the two "urban youths" kicked open the McClouds door and entered the home with tiny pistols in hand shouting at the Irish brothers to get on the floor.
Angus McCloud though produced his 45 and shot each "urban youth" once!
The "urban youths" were able to get to their "caddy" but both gave up at the nearby North Police Precinct due to blood loss!
Both barely survived their single gunshot wounds!
Both nearly bled to death!
Neither "urban youth" got off a shot!
Angus later told me he was anticipating being shot himself as he recovered from the 45's recoil from his first shot.
Apparently the "urban youths" were so startled by the production of the big pistol and the noise it made that they did not return or initiate fire?
The urban youths did drive several blocks and by the time they reached the North Police Precinct they had "ditched" their armaments - they of course contended (after "lawyering up"!) that they did not kick in the door nor did they return with pistols! And the reason they were shotten at all was that the McCloud brothers were "racists" and an argument over prices caused them to be shot!
Eventually under withering and LENGTHY (months) police inquiry the two "urban youths" fessed up that indeed they were drug addled drug addicts and had invaded the McCloud home with armaments intent on stealing lots of stuff!
Theres an old saying that comes to mind "dead men tell no lies"!
Yeah go with the reliable Glock Model 22 and become proficient with laying down a field of fire in dark and adverse conditions, positions!
And make sure your "home invader" is not a drunken relative coming home mad and not having a key - etc etc tc!
Thats another story though.
Again best of luck with whichever you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

the scater gun is great in a mind set. I had three people break into my house 3 yrs ago. I came home late from work and walked in on them.I carry concealed permit so i had a 9mm on me. any gun will mess with the mind set of a person when you throw lead out of it.

twer it me, i'd find more security in checking the layout of my home and optimizing where possible to make things difficult for prowlers/burglars...

a good family dog is invaluable as an alarm if something is going on around the home... we've all learned to pay attention when the dog makes a fuss...

as far as guns go, spend some time in fun shooting with the gals in your home... my wife is capable enough with a lot of guns... the one that she picks up when i'm gone at night is her youth model savage bolt .22...
not the weapon i would chose for her, but probably OK given the direction that we've taken with dogs, chickens, and our physical security layout....

and she carries her model 10 when she walks....

A 9mm Glock is never a bad choice. Pretty simple to master.

For a long gun for women, a 357 levergun isn't bad. Or an M1 Carbine, or a good ol' AK47. They are all fairly handy in size, easy to operate, low recoil, plenty powerful, and hold plenty of ammo.

Shotguns are nice too, but recoil can be intimidating to some, and have adverse effect on effectiveness.

I wish my wife would enjoy shooting more. She comes from a "Leave it Beaver" type back ground and still maintains this mind set that Eddie Haskel is the worse the world has to offer.

My 15 year old daughter got some small pepper spray canisters for her B-Day a few year ago that fit in her purse. This helped introduce the concept of a weapon for self protection. She and my 10 year old son take to shooting like ducks to water.

Shotguns are great, but they are in a fixed location, and if you are out and about then they may not be available in time. Revolvers are good too, but a lot of people cant shoot as well in double action mode, including myself.

I really like the light weight 14+1 shot, 9mm CZ-75 PCR I picked up recently. The de-cocking lever lets you put the hammer down safely on a loaded chamber. With children, I feel much more comfortable with the weapon stored double action. You can manipulate the hammer easily for a more precise single action first shot, and then lower the hammer again safely. The pistol is light weight, and serves well in a concealed carry role. I will be looking for another.

Pilfered photo of a PCR next to an XP

Get a short barelled 12 guage. A M37 Ithaca trench gun lives under my bed. The Glock 20 in my nite stand is there in case I need time to get to the Ithaca.

O

I've already pitched my vote for a user friendly revolver but would like to add a little experience I had in Africa. A friend & I were hunting over there & we went to dinner one night with a group of 10 other people, both men & women. After dinner we found out the only 2 people that weren't packing a gun that night were me & my partner! Both the women & the men were carrying Glock model 23's with hi-cap mags, the men were carrying them in their waist band under a shirt or sweater, no one we seen was carrying in a holster. The guns were very fast to retreive & they really didn't care much if someone noticed they were carrying!
We also learned after a few days that its very dangerous in the big cities (Johannesburg) just like here! I'm a country boy, I like the small towns!

Dick