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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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I have a 19 week old yellow lab pup. Good dog, real smart. Picked up sit, shake, stay etc really easily, and quick. 5 minutes with sit and he knows it by voice, as well as hand motion.
He does pretty well with come... When he wants. My question is what is the secret to get him to come when I WANT him to. What secrets can you share? With my other dog (a mut, who is one of the best dogs I have ever seen) Is perfect on all commands, but he does the same, comes when he wants. The way I trained him is I would tell him to sit and stay, then walk away and would call him to me. Workes pretty well, but again.. It is on his terms.
How do you guys do it so they come running to you when you say "Come"?
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Campfire Regular
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At 19 weeks, he's still really young, so I'd take it slow. Start him with a check cord and a long hallway. (Say COME!, pull him toward you and love him up.) Do this 5 to 10 minutes a day until he has it down pat. Then move him outside and repeat in a kennel. Finally work your way to the wide open. Lastly work him on birds with a good STIFF check cord. Some dogs it takes longer than others.
If you have an e collar, you may also want to begin to condition him to that too. I'm an advocate of e collars when used properly (and there's a lot of good information on how to do this with the Come command) but there were an awful lot of dogs trained without them.
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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How about a one year old standard poodle. When the command "come" is issued, he thinks it's time for bounce and chase. I won't chase him, but I need to get him to listen. He is supposedly being trained by my wife and a professional trainer to be a service dog, but I get so frustrated when no one can call him in and he has to be captured. I get evil looks when I suggest a Taser strength electric collar.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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take the advice above and use a check cord
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Try sit/stay and then come. Sometimes it works.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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i don't teach a dog "come", but use the "heel" command instead...
to teach a dog to heel from any distance, he's gotta understand your "negative" or "no"... (i use a sharp gutteral "AH AAH")... all dogs need to understand the negative command and stop what they are doing immediately when it is given...
teach the dog to heel on leash... when he has that solid, give him the heel from a sit at 10 feet distance... if, on the command, he moves in any direction but towards heel, use the negative...
eventually, you should be able to "heel" your dog from any distance, and away from any activity...
i do not get tied up with a lot of different obedience commands with most field dogs... "heel" is probably the most important...
i also use "sit"... "stay" is unnecessary as a dog trained to sit should sit until released...
"kennel up" is used to put the dog in his kennel or the truck...
i teach "corner" which will put a dog in his bed in the family room... a dog trained to corner will also find a corner to lie down in at a friends home, a tavern, or gun shop, with little confusion upon command...
"corner" has always put my dogs in the front of the canoe where i like them to ride as well...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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you need to be your dogs best buddy...
still, a dog MUST learn to cease and desist any activity upon the negative command...
he's gotta know that the negative means business....
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Campfire Regular
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For a pointing dog, heel is a problematic command. I really don't care for it as a prelude to COME. Having said that, it is nice for your dog to know heel prior to crossing a road. Nothing like bringing an otherwise broken dog to you then forcing a WHOA command followed by HEEL when they try to go past your line of travel. Anyway, there's lots of ways to get there and one needs to adjust their training to the dog, not the other way around.
I do agree a gutteral voice will get a dog's attention like no other. Its like a growl to them and they will soon get the hang of it.
Last edited by Huntaria_Setters; 02/07/10.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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i have little experience in raising pointing dogs, so far...
what is the problem with heeling them???
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You have to make coming to you the most wonderful thing in the world for the dog.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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You have to make coming to you the most wonderful thing in the world for the dog. Exactamundo!!! Glad someone finally said it!!! I posted this once before, but the best way Ive heard it described came from a Schutzhund Trainer.. " Come, to the dog should mean you may come to me now, not you must come to me now.."" Extrapolate on that concept, and that is basically all you need ever know about dog training.... Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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Hey, I did something right! 
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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i have little experience in raising pointing dogs, so far...
what is the problem with heeling them??? It might just be me, but I teach both come and heel to retrievers. Reason being, "come" means head toward me right now but I may stop you at any time, until then keep coming. Heel means get in the heel position regardless. "Back" and "come," ...send them out and bring them in. Not to mention "over."
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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i have little experience in raising pointing dogs, so far...
what is the problem with heeling them??? There is nothing wrong with heeling them. It is a desirable command. My remarks were in regard to a young pointing dog just learning the ropes. Even then, you'll find a lot of trainers that will disagree with me. My experience is that the WHOA command really needs to be very well understood before going to heel, otherwise, IME, the dog can get confused and start to creep on WHOA. WHOA means that you do not move regardless of what is going on around you until you are released. Once this is completely understood by the dog, then you can move to the heel command.
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Campfire Regular
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You have to make coming to you the most wonderful thing in the world for the dog. Exactamundo!!! Glad someone finally said it!!! I posted this once before, but the best way Ive heard it described came from a Schutzhund Trainer.. " Come, to the dog should mean you may come to me now, not you must come to me now.."" Extrapolate on that concept, and that is basically all you need ever know about dog training.... Ingwe Ingwe, if I read you correctly, you are saying that the dog should always want to be at your side unless you tell them otherwise. Is this correct? I think a dog does want to be with his master, but if he's hunting, I really want him to have some independence. And, I really want him to tell me to go jump in the lake if I mistakenly call him if he's marking game and I'm not in position to see him. In grouse trials, a single find will often win. It would stink if the dog left point just because you said "Come." Believe it or not, these dogs know that standing on game is not disobedience to the come command. This is one of the wonderful things about forging a partnership with your dog. A well-trained dog should be given leeway to do what he sometimes may think is best. Sometimes that means let him potter around an area that doesn't look like too much to you, but you realize its his nose and he knows how to use it. Or pick his head up and race into the wind for several hundred yards wondering if he will ever stop, then see him lock up on point. Getting to this partnership in some ways is like watching your 16 year old drive off for the first time. And, eventually, that 16 year old becomes a man that is well taught and productive, but does things just a bit differently than how you would do it. Anyway, sorry to ramble so.
Last edited by Huntaria_Setters; 02/08/10.
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Campfire Member
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You have to make coming to you the most wonderful thing in the world for the dog. Exactamundo!!! Glad someone finally said it!!! I posted this once before, but the best way Ive heard it described came from a Schutzhund Trainer.. " Come, to the dog should mean you may come to me now, not you must come to me now.."" Extrapolate on that concept, and that is basically all you need ever know about dog training.... Ingwe Ingwe, if I read you correctly, you are saying that the dog should always want to be at your side unless you tell them otherwise. Is this correct? I think a dog does want to be with his master, but if he's hunting, I really want him to have some independence. And, I really want him to tell me to go jump in the lake if I mistakenly call him if he's marking game and I'm not in position to see him. In grouse trials, a single find will often win. It would stink if the dog left point just because you said "Come." Believe it or not, these dogs know that standing on game is not disobedience to the come command. This is one of the wonderful things about forging a partnership with your dog. A well-trained dog should be given leeway to do what he sometimes may think is best. Sometimes that means let him potter around an area that doesn't look like too much to you, but you realize its his nose and he knows how to use it. Or pick his head up and race into the wind for several hundred yards wondering if he will ever stop, then see him lock up on point. Getting to this partnership in some ways is like watching your 16 year old drive off for the first time. And, eventually, that 16 year old becomes a man that is well taught and productive, but does things just a bit differently than how you would do it. Anyway, sorry to ramble so. I thought he was saying you need create a situation where your dog wants to come to you, not that it has to. I agree with your assessment of independence, but that is breeding. A well bred dog can't help but to move out; a well trained dog will come when called because it wants to . . .
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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Ingwe, if I read you correctly, you are saying that the dog should always want to be at your side unless you tell them otherwise. Is this correct? I think a dog does want to be with his master, but if he's hunting, I really want him to have some independence. And, I really want him to tell me to go jump in the lake if I mistakenly call him if he's marking game and I'm not in position to see him.
Believe it or not, these dogs know that standing on game is not disobedience to the come command.
You make a couple good points HS... First we train ( K9) the officers that the Single most important aspect in dog training is that the dog MUST be having fun.... I also train Service Dogs for the disabled....the bonding with the dog, and the independence you mention are likewise important in all types of training...not being able to call a dog off a point, keep one from working the AO in a "hot" building, or having a Guide Dog refuse to step out into traffic is all part of training and can be lumped under what we call "Wilfull disobedience"... There is a point in all performance disciplines where the dog must make his own decisions, and at that point, we recite another part of our Mantra to the handlers...." Trust the Dog...." My main point, and Im sure you guys all got it cause youre all experienced handlers/trainers...is that you need to be the BEST thing in that dog's world.. he will work for you, he will work with you...all because he wants to, not because he has to.... Basic Positive Reinforcement motivational training...  Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Regular
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...is that you need to be the BEST thing in that dog's world.. he will work for you, he will work with you...all because he wants to, not because he has to.... Basic Positive Reinforcement motivational training... Ingwe Amen!
Last edited by Huntaria_Setters; 02/08/10.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You have to make coming to you the most wonderful thing in the world for the dog. Exactamundo!!! Glad someone finally said it!!! I posted this once before, but the best way Ive heard it described came from a Schutzhund Trainer.. " Come, to the dog should mean you may come to me now, not you must come to me now.."" Extrapolate on that concept, and that is basically all you need ever know about dog training.... Ingwe I am all for being the dogs buddy, but if you give a high-rev pointing dog an option, I think you'll be disappointed! In all my spirited dogs, come has to be sturdily reinforced..there is a fine line however, cuz he must still enjoy coming to you! (did i just contradict myself, lol. I think you get the point!)
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Got the point!! So to speak......  Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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