Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Which would you choose?

Greetings,

After returning from my annual deer hunt I am considering aquiring a 300 WSM or 300 Weatherby mag. Which would you choose and why? A little background. Hunted south western Nebraska for mule deer. Saw one buck at more than 400 yds. I have not practiced at that type of range, but if I were to take a shot at that distance I would want something that would still have plenty of "thump" when it got there, and have a relatively "flat" trajectory. Note to those with thoughts of lecturing me on taking shot at ranges not practiced. I would practise at those distances first. But the 30-06 that I shoot now has too much drop at that distance for me to feel comfortable to even practice at that distance. So which would you choose and why?

I would choose the 300 WSM

Because:
1. I do not have a 300 Wby Mag or a 300 win mag or any other "mag"

2. The 300 wby mag rifles inclueded (in my opinion) is a bit too expensive for me (I could be wrong, don't know what the 300 WSM ammo stuff costs..)

3. I reload. This I feel would give me the biggest advantage with the 300WSM. could load for what ever I want and use a big variety of bullets.

4. Practice would be cheaper.

Why not a 300wm? tom

Pumpgun, A 300 win mag would be ok too. Did not exclude it on purpose.

Blammer, The 300 weatherby ammo is about the same as the 300 WSM in price. But I believe the Weatherby has more punch / velocity than either the 300 win mag, or WSM.

i'd use a 7mm of one flavor or another.

if i had to choose between the cartridges you listed, i'd go 300 wsm. very happy w/ mine. i still prefer my 7 rem mag over it, though.

i don't pay attention to price of ammo... i handload nearly everything, and the 300 wsm uses around 70 grains of powder - so roughly 100 shots per pound. get about 4 firings per case.

Gundog,
I've got all three chamberings (300 WSM, 300WM, and 300WBY). While the 300 WBY is a little more spectacular when it comes to killing, the difference is not great enough to cause me to buy the chambering in a rifle I didn't like.

Shop for a rifle you like. Find one that fits you well and handles well for you, then buy it in the 300 mag chambering it's offered in. All three will make you happy.

I am never against adding a new rifle to safe, but your reasons need a little more justification. If you are looking to shoot past 300 yards you really need to do a couple things first.
1. Use a way to know the range and compensate for it.
2. Practice, practice, practice.

Ballistics may be better on the magnums than the 30-06, but how much extra point blank does that buy you?

Now, if you really want to add a faster .30 cal rifle to your collection, I would go with the RUM. If you have your heart set on one of those two well... the WSM will be cheaper to shoot but the Weatherby is a better performer Since you own an '06 I would go Weatherby to get a little more disparity.

My rifle of choice for deer is my 25-06. I have practiced plenty with it and would not hesitate if the right opportunity arose out to 550 yards. This year I killed my buck at 360 yards. Sighted dead on at 200 yards I put the first mil where I wanted to hit.

30-06 will do fine to 500 yards if the accuracy is there and the situation is right. Then you just need to do your part.

Gundog,

Your '06 has plenty of thump out to 500yds+ for mule deer. Do you handload? I'd invest in a Leica 1200 LRF and a bi-pod first. Work up a good handload with 165s and practice out to 500yds. If your rifle needs work or tuning then have that done too. More info on your current '06 and optics would be helpful.

If you are set on a new rifle, then I'd go with the 300WSM or 300WM myself.

MtnHtr

Mtn Hunter - I have a Ruger M77MKII stainless with a 22" barrel. The rifle fits me well, but I have not been able to get better than 1 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100 yds with it. This after new trigger, bedding, free float, ... etc., etc. At 400 yds that translates to 12" or so - if my math is correct. Unacceptable to me. I am not under any illusion that a new cartridge will give me better accuracy in and of itself. But being the rifle nut that I am, ....... I am hankering for a new rifle.

If this rifle shot better, say 1 inch or less at 100 yds., I would be more inclined to keep it, but since it does not I am willing to rebarrel / chamber it, or sell it out right. I have considered rebarreling it with a 25 or 26 inch tube to squeeze a little more velocity out of it and leave it as 30-06. I believe Flinch is getting very good velocities from his long tubed 30-06.

But a new rifle / cartridge is a good thing too.

Mark

If a .30-06 has too much drop at 400 yards for deer, I will eat my rifle. Sheesh, it is only down 2 more inches than the other calibers you mentioned at that range and only 300 ft. lbs. of energy, which isn't worth talking about. You can still hold on hair at 400 yards and kill deer all day long with the .30-06. I have dumped deer, elk and buffalo at far past 400 yards with the wimpy .30-06 and have gotten drop at the shot kills and exit holes. It is all about knowing your weapon. No magnum is going to magically make you a better, flatter shooter. Only practice and knowing the range does that. Some magnums are better than others at shooting flat, like the .25 Roy, but you still have to know the range and be able to place the bullet. The .300 WSM isn't going to change your drop much over the .30-06. I would personally take a 7mm mag over any of the .300's you mentioned. An accurate .30-06 with 150 grain bullets is one flat shooting weapon. Flinch

Gundog -

First, 1-1/2" group at 100 yards is a 6" group at 400, not a 12" group. A rifle that shoots 0.5" grops at 100 will print 2" groups at 400. What that really means is that the there is only a 2" radial difference in circular error at 400 yards between your rifle and the one that shoot 0.5" groups. If you do your part, will a deer really notice a difference of only 2"? Nah.

Second, I would also suggest a .300 Win Mag or a .300 RUM instead of a .300 WSM, with my preference being the Win Mag due to ammo availability and costs. Of course if you hand load, why not just tailor better loads for your .30-06? (If you are handloading and are only getting 1-1/2 groups, lets discuss that separately, as you should be able to do much better.)

I went with the 300WSM, three times. Got rid of my 300Win a couple years ago. I bought a 70 Classic Coyote but the scope mount holes were drilled wrong, it went back to the gunshop and back to USRAC and back to the store, but it didn't go back home with me. I went with the Finnlight and I love it, thank God it wasn't a recall. I started reloading for it and a couple months ago and suddenly an M70 Super Grade RMEF followed me home. It shoots very well, too. I like to have at least two different rifles in the same caliber when I reload. I'm sand pocketing all the brass I can find, I like this caliber.

SPAD

Flinch, I'm not suggesting that the 30-06 does not have enough oomph to down a deer at 400 yds. I am saing that mine doesn't have enough velocity to carry a relatively flat trajectory out to 400. I estimate that I am getting about 2750 fps out of my 22" tube. I say estimate as my friends crony died of lead poisoning and is no longer working. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The printed velocity from Hornady shows their 165 gr Interbond ammo at 2800. Normally these printed velocities are based on a 24 inch barrel, since I have a 22" I presume I am loosing about 50 fps give or take a little. If I am correct that puts me about 25+" low at 400 yds if sighted 2 1/2" high at 100 yds. According to published velocities a 300 win mag will throw the same 165 gr bullet at 3100 fps, and if also sighted 2 1/2" high at 100 yds will be 16.5", or so, low at 400 yds. Now if I had a longer barrel on my 30-06 I would conceivably get more velocity, and that would would close the gap between the two. But at the present I don't have alonger barrel ...... Instead of spending the money on a rebarrel I am considering starting over with a dif cartridge. I may yet decide to rebarrel and try again with this rifle. Only time will tell.

Thanks again.

Mark.

Coyote hunter,

I guess my math is off, I thought whatever the group size at 100 - it doubles every 100 yds. ie; 1" at 100 yds = 2" @ 200, 4" @ 300, ... etc. Based on my calculations since I am getting 1 1/2" @ 100yds, and almost 3" @ 200 yds, this would translate to 6" @ 300, and 12" @ 400 yds.
I have a 243 that shoots 3 shots a little over 3 inches at 338 yds. (that's the farthest I have shot at a target). At 100 its right around an inch. Had a .270 that put 5 shots at about 1/2" to 3/4" @ 100yds, and about 1 to 1 1/2" @ 200yds. Roughly doubling the group size each 100 yds.
What formula were you using? I only based my statement on my own experiences with shooting groups in my own rifles.

I don't handload ... yet. I am not opposed to the 300 win mag, or the 300 RUM. At this point I am just tossing around some ideas. Shoot, I may end up putting a longer bareel on this rifle and be done with it.

But if I can't get better accuracy than what I have so far with this rifle I will most likely part with it. Being a lefty though my choices are somewhat limited. Although I do see that Remington makes the LSS in a lefty. Hmmm ....

Thanks

Mark

I'll bet you put a longer barrel on your existing rifle. (a match grade barrel to boot) that your group size will shrink a lot!

Gundog -

Yup, your math is wrong - the error doubles between 100 and 200 yards because the distance doubles. The distance triples between 100 and 300, and so does the error, from 1-1/2" to 4-1/2". And quadruples when the distance quadruples, from 100 to 400, 1-1/2" to 6".

Out of those two I'd choose the 300 WSM. Since you mentioned the Weatherby though, my first choice for a long range deer-dropper would be the 257 Wby. I shot a Mulie buck down in SW NE, just outside of Arapahoe. The scenery was absolutely beautiful. Hope you enjoyed your trip!!

Nebraska, We were hunting south of Imperial - approx 1 1/2 hours west of where you were hunting. Beautiful. 257 Weatherby also intrigues me. I wish Winchester would have introduced the 25 WSM instead of WSSM.

Coyote - Thanks for the explanation. My math was off.

Blammer, I don't know if the groups sizes would auotmatically shrink with a longer barrel, but I know the velocity will increase somewhat. I would feel more comfortable in shooting at longer ranges if the overall group sizes were tighter. If I were only going to have shots at 100 to 200 yds. I would not be concerned with 1 1/2" groups, but the possiblity of shots exceeding 300 yds is a real possibility here on the great plains.

Mark.

Gundog, your velocities are probably pretty close. Nearly all factory .30-06 ammo is loaded VERY mild. You have a couple of options. Federal High Energy loads with the Nosler partition will boost your velocity about 150 fps. over your current load. I would recommend the Trophy Bonded bullet, but it has a very low B.C. and drops quite fast. You will get right around 2,850-2,900 fps with the Federal stuff out of your 22" barrel. I have chronographed this load in several rifles. It flat out moves and is right on the heals of the best .300 mag stuff!

Another option is the Hornady light magnum 150 grain flat base. This bullet moves along at over 3,000 fps in a 22" barrel. The 150 grain flat base is a fantastic bullet. I have killed several elk and tons of big mule deer with it far and close. It hangs together well.

The third option is to sight your rifle in for 250 or 300 yards, whichever you prefer. Then your drop is only 10-14" at 400 yards, depending on bullet and velocity. These are easy fixes to the .30-06. IF you are still hung up on a magnum, you best go shoot a couple before you buy. They do kick some <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

YOu actually need to go and shoot your rifle at the ranges you think you will be hunting. Don't go off drop charts. I have found them to be highly optimistic at best. Flinch

I like my 300 wby in a 26" sporter weight barrel winchester model 70. Kind of thought it was interesting enough, a winny chambered in the 300 wby. I don't think they do it any more though. It seems like Rem & Winchester dropped some of the alternate caliber choices after developing there own new magnum super short this & thats. I'm a bit of a nastolgic inthusiest myself so the 300 wby apealed to me once I learned that it was developed way back in the mid 40's. There are faster 30 cal magnums out there (RUM) But I found in my opinion that the 300 wby fit the prescription for my particular theories & thoughts on reaching out there for long shots but still having the ability to spend the energy inside of the animal. I don't know, I guess to be honest I just plain flat out love buying guns so I wouldn't mind having one of everything mentioned thus far plus a few that haven't been mentioned yet. What's this gun for anyways? I remember reading that 400 yds was important but what the heck are we shooting at 400 yds? Deer? Elk? Both? For mule deer out west I'm told the old 300 wby loaded with 150 grain is good medicine for long shooting. Intersting that you are comparing the 300 WSM (which looks to be no different then the old 300 wm other then the length of the action) and the 300 wby which has become nearly lost or forgotten in the recent storm of new super, ultra and or short magnums thrown at us by Rem & Winchester. My hunch is you've got your eye on two different rifles on a sale shelf somewhere, both apeal to you & you are trying to decide between the two based on caliber performance. I do it frequently, recently I decided between an A-bolt with 26" boss barrel in a .338 WM & A win M-70 sporter LT 26" chambered 300 wby, I was shopping for an elk gun. I personally prefered the .338 as a caliber choice for my intended use but I favored the winchester rifle for my patriotic hang up of needing to buy American styled rifles manufactured in America (it's a silly little hang up I've got, just can't see past the "made in Japan" roll marked or painted on my hunting stuff.) You Browning guys, please don't beat me up on that one, you've got good rifles. Anyways I chose the Winny because I just plain liked the rifle better and the 300wby worked well for me on the one trip it has seen so far. Lots of good guns out there, lots of good calibers, buy the one that apeals to you the most.