Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters The Long-range "Hunting" fad

I shot a kid with my pellet gun when I was about 12..and like yours...he needed shooting...
Word never got back to my parents cause a follow up was promised if it did....

Ingwe

To my everlasting shame, a group of us would get our bb guns and engage in tribal warfare with a group of Blacks armed with wrist rockets.

This would take place behind Tommy Kimbrell's house. He had a huge ravine and on the other side was a neighborhood. We would sneak into the ravine and way lay unsuspecting brothers.

There was only one problem, getting hit with a rock out of a wrist rocket will knock your azz out. We had blast and would call a truce to remove casualties.

I thank the Lord we never hurt each other badly, they were good kids, worthy opponents and enjoyed it as much as we did.

JM.

JohnMoses....we lived a similar lifestyle it seems.

I too had a BB gun that was wrapped around a tree by an mother who didn't understand kid warfare. It's true, I did shoot my brother with it......but I'd warned him that I would if he didn't surrender. She just couldn't see the logic and destroyed my rifle......an 1894 "Spitting Image" that was the envy of every Red Ryder owner in our town. I still get chills when I think of that beautiful gun in a "U" shape around that pine.

It worked out though.......my father gave me a Remington 510 for Christmas two weeks later. Guess he figured I'd have enough restraint to NOT shoot my brothers with a .22.

We too had "wars" even up to high school age. We would choose teams and wear thick jeans and coats armed with BB guns. Only body shots were allowed although the occational "miss" resulted in a head shot (why we never put out someone's eye I don't know). Each "team" would go to opposite sides of town and fight towards the other team's "headquarters".

During a "war" one weekend, I armed myself with one of my friend's new pump-up pellet rifle. I'd never shot a pellet rifle much and didn't fully understand the power it had. When my best friend refused to surrender during the battle.....I shot him in the leg as I'd said I would.

Did you know a pellet rifle with 10 pumps will penetrate two pairs of jeans and bury the pellet in a man's thigh???

We knew that if any of our parents got word of this "accident" our fun (and possibly lives) would be over....sooooo. With two boys holding the patient relatively steady, I removed the offending pellet from his leg with my trusty (semi-clean) pocketknife. We bandaged it as best we could and somehow he healed without infection setting in. So all was well......I really don't think it would have even have left much of a scar except all that unnessisary screaming and squirming around distracted the surgeon.

Similar stuff... Remember once when two kids kept me pinned down with air rifles for what seemed hours. They must have had an inexhaustible ammo supply or something. I suddenly understood the concept of air support... Anyway, I got even a couple of days later when I beaned one of those kids with one of those hardazz tiny green apples. How was I supposed to know that it would knock the lens right out of his glasses and give him a black eye? Got in a world of chit over that...

A thank-you to everyone that responded to my question. I appreciate the sharing of observations and anecdotes. The comments from MD, Savage62,Dan360,Shortmagfan and ScottM were especially enlightening.

Midcentury

"A deer is a terrible thing to waste..."

At the risk of being called a doddering old fool and being flamed in effigy: Long Range shooting is not hunting, it is shooting. Just like driven pheasant is shooting not hunting. If it is too far, get closer, that's hunting. From Jurrasic Park, Jeff Goldblum said of Chaos Theory, "we shouldn't be concerned with if we can, but should we be doing this." My son-in-law shot a deer in PA at 700+ yards. Did it from a bench and, he had been shooting at the 1000yard competitions that spawned this type of shooting in the '60s. He had a PA record 7" group for awhile. A stunt in my opinion, as are other activities that I participate in. I ve been embroiled in the discussion of what is Traditional in archery; is it it flyfishing using a golfball sized strike indicator; should we be using handcannons at 300yards; shooting animals with a compound bow at 60-80 yards; yada, yada, yada.

I have a friend that practiced at 600 yards for his elk hunt, shot a cow at 400 yards and blamed TSA for turning his scope around. His buddy shot an elk at 250yards and again 3 days later at 200. The bullet hadn't performed properly punching a hole thru a non-vital undefined spot. Both were getting claimed 1/2" groups at 200 yards. They were practicing from different positions and thought they were ready. They were shooting a lot with accurate weapons, no thought as to conditioning and such at altitude.

I watch the shows with the giant range finding scopes on top of custom weapons. I see people shooting Blackpowder weapons with all manner of modern affectations and they call it Primitive. Too laugh is all I can say. We have had the poor animals at a disadvantage since we started driving them off cliffs and harvesting from the carnage. Don't claim some superiority over what you use as a tool, and don't get your knickers in a bunch if some Bozo calls you on it.

I shoot in excess of 10,000 rounds of ammo a year, mostly 22LR in Bench Rest style competition. I learned more about wind and other variables than I had in the previous 40years when I started shooting the lowly 22LR. I can hit an 18" boiler plate at 600 yards with my M1A with iron sights. I can hit a buffalo silhouette at 300 yards offhand with a 45/70. I feel I can hit anything I shoot at with my 257WBY at 400yards from a steady field position. I just prefer not to do it. I would like to do it closer. I hear a lot of bragging about how well people shoot their favorite smokepole, I want to see it. Most folks with expensive weapons " cant shoot worth a lick". They carry around their prize, one, 3 shot group in their wallet. Now, five shots would get my attention, as well as a stack of good targets rather than just one

Spending lots of money on weapons and practice is a great hobby. A lot of pleasure can be derived from that activity. Shooting animals at long range, beyond 400 yards, is iffy from the standpoint of how many things can go wrong. Wind, movement, mis-identification, .........take the shot and if the animal doesn't, fall make sure you cross the canyon and look for blood. Don't take 7 shots and assume you missed. At 700 yards the 300 Ultramag has the terminal ballistics of a 30/30 give or take. Ask not, "can I make the shot", rather "should I?" All this from a 65 year old curmudgeon.

Estacado

I have a question generated by this discussion.

What make and type of scopes are being used for long range shooting that allows for accurate and immediate tracking of the crosshairs?

I have a number of Leupy's and in my opinion they all require 2 or 3 settling shots before a scope correction can be counted on. Obviously these are not suitable for long shots.

In my experience the Bushnell scopes have been the best for immediately moving the crosshairs without the need for settling shots. What others are there?

Jim

Ahh the infamous bb gun wars. Those were the days. You guys just brought back some good memories. I to am amased that no one was hurt seriously.

I remember when Dion took a wrist rocket marble to the satchel.

We thought he was going to lose it, but the doc's put some ice on it and sent him home, with a juevo the size of an orange.

All it did was convince us to where heavier britches and invent shields....

Nikon - Monarch X
Leupold - Mark 4's and 2's
Zeiss - Diavari
Swarovski - Z6, Z5's and Habicht models
Schmidt & Bender - Marksman and Precision Hunter
Kahles - K312 & K418
U.S. Optics - SN3 and up
Huskemaw

There are more but that will give you an idea.

JM

I always look back in amazement that nobody got hurt. hell if a kid now days looks at a BB gun he will instantly shoot himself and his mother will scream in horror at the sight of it.

The funny thing was that we always wore heavy coats and multiple layers of pants but never not once that I recall did we where any eye protection. Maybe that is because we had a rule of no head shots but still to put that kind of trust in an 8 year old is pretty dumb. ah the good ol days

We fought with those guys over several years. They learned. At first they would quickly run out of rocks and we could move up, then all of the sudden it changed. They always had ammo.

I had noticed smaller kids running back and forth and figured they were re-supplying big brother during the fight. I told Kimbrell and he said we'd have to start shooting the little ones too.

He and I made a trip across the ravine and discovered that there was a gravel school bus turn around at the end of the paved street.

The next time we attacked them, he and I got an early start and made it over to the hill by the bus turn around before the others launched their attack.

Sure enough when it started here comes about 5 little fellas running down the street towards us with buckets and bags. I thought we had agreed just to scare them off, but Kimbrell started nailing them. They hauled ass screaming and I thought we were going to be killed.

Some of the older boys tried to make it down there to grab a few and we shot them. It was a rout that day. It got to where when we would attack they would send some little kid that was usually crying down there to see if we had made it over to their ammo supply and were waiting on them.

We'd let him grab a few rocks and run his whining ass back up the street and sure enough here came the herd and we'd open up on them.

It got to the point that they would just quit playing if we had set up there, so we had to quit doing it in order to keep having our little battles.

JM

funny this topic came up, yesterday I went to the range to fireform some loads and test some factory loads. some old fart there had a christiansen arms rifle there all decked out, its was a 300 RUM, with a [bleep] muzzlebreak on it, naturally the bench next to him was the only one open so I HAD to take it, notice I am still pissed about it. the gun even had a huskemaw scope on it, which told be just about all I needed to know about how much this guy really knew about shooting long range, he bragged to all his buddies around there he was going to be able to shoot elk at 900 yards. I got home and did some checking and this guy had to have about 6 grand tied up in this rig. the funny thing is looking at his target showed groups of about 1-1.5MOA. you don't have any idea how much I wanted to tell him and his buddies how much they got ripped off

shooting animals out to 5-600 yards is one thing, shooting them at 900 is another matter ALL together, there is just way too much that can happen at that range that is out of the shooters hands, one thing I noticed about all the best in the west setups is non of them have levels mounted on the guns however they are always shooting them in terrain across canyons etc. IMO you HAVE to use some sort of gun leveling device to make shots like this really count.

while I was at the range another guy was shooting rocks way way up on the mountain behind the range, and using a hammer to get the bolt closed on his remington 700, its a wonder people don't kill themselves with guns more often.

I think the best in the west started the long range hunting trend. their stuff is so over priced its rediculous, the only thing I do like is the windage hash marks and the setup they have for holding off to compensate for wind, thats about it, one thing they don't say is it sure is harder to make a long range hit in field conditions vs doing it at the range off a bench

My experience involved plastic toy soldiers set up in the remains of the tomato plants and other garden left-overs. The season on this was roughly from early October through early April each year. The distance was 20-25 yards from an elevated position on the top of the back steps. I did not really use the sights. I had sent enough BBs downrange (some of them multiple times - for reasons of economy I would root around and find all that I could in the dirt) over the years that I shot instinctively. I would also cock the gun, hold it by the fore-end in my left hand, scale the lid from a cottage cheese carton into the air with my right, mount the gun to my shoulder and shoot at the lid. I got pretty good at that as well. At one point, I came across a scope that could be mounted on the Daisy that I was currently wearing out. It had no glass in it; it was just a plastic tube with crosshairs that could be adjusted for windage and elevation. By the time I got it to where it would hit anything, the intersection of the crosshairs was way up in the northwest corner of the tube. The disappointing thing was that I could hit much better without the thing than with it.

I tossed empty pop cans in the air and shot at them. Later on, when I was 12, I spent the summer in a very tiny town where a lot of people shot at the dumpground. I used to go up there with my .22 and throw bottles into the air and shoot at them. No doubt all of this helped when I started shooting shotguns a year or so later!

Anybody else here that used to shoot rats at the dump?

Back during the Viet Nam war the Army came up with a program called "Quick Kill", this was to teach soldiers how to shoot instinctively without using the sights. Obviously the nature of the targets there did not lend itself to formal marksmanship practice.

Anyway, they used Daisy BB guns to practice with. Daisy capitalized on this and came out with a kit called "Quick Skill" containing a standard lever BB gun and some other stuff - little plastic discs or something.

Didn't get the Daisy kit but read up on the technique - you act like a gun turret and move your whole upper body and head from the waist. Look at the top of the target for targets higher than you, bottom edge if they're lower and right on for stuff about level with you. It works really well for aerial targets and stationary targets.

You had mentioned in another post how you can shoot your DGR just by looking over the barrel and that reminded me of this Quick Kill training as well.

Every Sunday, Dad would take me to the dump and I would shoot twenty-five rounds of Remington shorts that came in a packet like Chicklets gum. The targets were always cans, jars, and bottles. The rats must have been completely nocturnal as we never saw any. The rats came later in the old corncrib out back of the house we lived in then, but I was only allowed to shoot birdshot in that location.

A tip for those aspiring aerial trick shots -

When you throw a can or bottle in the air, throw it straight up and out or at least at a very high arc. For a brief instant it will hang literally motionless in mid-air as it changes direction from up to down and that's when you can nail it. Got to be pretty good shooting cans and bottles out of the air with a Ruger Single Six revolver.

Of course, you gotta be careful, it's easy to shower yourself with broken glass.

Shooting glass is non-PC now and that's probably for the best. Any place shooters gather for plinking soon becomes a garbage dump. Used to be a lot more naturally occurring garbage dumps where you could shoot and it wouldn't matter.

no problem with my leupold scopes needing setteling shots.

yesterday ran by the range with my 300 rum and 4.5-14 leupold.
pda, exbal program said 52 clicks at 800 yards.
settled in, and touched the first one off.

the pleasant sound of a thwack came back, from the 18" plate. looked thru the spotter and just about 2 inches left of center was a new splash, on the edge of the black painted dot.
chambered another, same hold, and the second hit the black center dot just on it's right edge.
drove out and batteries were dead on the camera of course, but there was just about 4 inches between the 2 hits.

got back to the bench, and returned the scope to zero, and fired 1 round at 100 yards on paper. yep, dead center....

no issues with this leupold.

also shot steel at other distant ranges, but it got boring.

a 300 rum is just plain awesome.