Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters barrel break in

I have a winchester M 70 featherwieght in 270 wsm. the first shot is always 2 in. low and then it strings right and up 4 in. this rifle has only been fired with coated bullets. can anyone tell me if it's bad practice to shoot coated bullets in a new barrel, and will shooting jacketed bullets now properly seal the barrel? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> haroldhartley@yahoo.com

HopSkip,

Custom barrel makers like Shilen and Krieger have break-in instructions on their sites.

Your change of impact sounds like barrel stress changing from cold to warm to me.

I don't shoot moly for most things, but I have heard Kenny Jarrett talk on the subject and he is not in favor.

jim

hunter Jim : I saw the barrel break in procedure on the Shilen site, and am wondering if it will ever be right since not broke in right. If it's a cold, warm thing will anything correct it? Am considering rebarreling with a Hart barrel and breaking it in properly if all else fails. What do you think? any recomendations? thanks haroldhartley@yahoo.com

Has anything been done to the stock like bedding or floating the barrel? Before I would go to a new barrel, I would try some simple stock tricks. Is this factory ammo? Bore Tech use to make a moly remover. Don't swap back and forth between coated/uncoated bullets. I don't think the moly is your problem.Rick.

Hopskip,

If this was my rifle I would begin by cleaning it to "bare metal", and then breaking the barrel in with jacketed bullets. I have enought experience with barrels and jacketed bullets to judge whether to replace the barrel or just put up with it.

Years ago I had a Remington M700 7 mm RM that would not group the first shot from a clean barrel in the same group as when fouled. It would then shoot small groups with the loads I worked up for it. I just made sure when I went hunting to fire a fouling shot first with that rifle. This was not too tough for a hunting rifle. This was a clean-dirty thing.

I follow Kenny Jarret in break-in. He makes his own barrels, studies them and does a lot of testing. He is working with more barrels in a month than I do all year. Kenny sez that shooting one and cleaning for 20 shots will blend the two differently machined zones between the chamber (rotational tool marks) and the barrel (longitudinal tool marks).

I don't know if your barrel will ever "unkink" but I would try the easy fixes first before going to a Hart. They do make great barrels though.

Have you asked about returning the rifle for a factory re-barrel?

jim

It doesn't sound like moly in the barrel; it sounds like a bedding problem or a bad barrel. Moly is worthless; its only legitimate use is the excercise it gives you scrubbing it out of your bore. You will not smooth out your Winchester barrel by any break-in procedure; the last Winchester barrel I looked at with a borescope resembled a lava field. The last two Model 70 Winchester rifles I owned--a.270 and a .338--could not hit Rhode Island if I were standing in Masschusetts, despite all attempts to fix them.

I've found generally that break-ins are as useless as moly. A rough barrel is going to be so rough that it can only be smoothed by lapping, and a good barrel doesn't need a break-in. Just shoot the damn thing and don't worry about it. Some rough barrels shoot extremely well--Savage, for example, and Douglas. The only problem is cleaning them.

My advice is to sell the Winchester to someone you don't like and get a Savage or a Tikka T3.

I believe that the various barrel break-in procedures are useless (that usually starts some arguments <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) and that you'll do just fine to simply shoot until it's dirty and then clean it. Also, I'm not too fond of bullet coatings either, especially moly. But, let's get to the real issue here...

When you say "first shot" do you mean the first shot from a clean barrel, or the first shot from a cold barrel that is already fouled?

If it's the first shot after you've cleaned the bore, then it's common. The overall majority of rifles will throw the first shot from a clean barrel to a different point of impact, and many will throw the first 2-3 to a different POI than the later shots. As the barrel gets fouled back to "normal" the POI will settle down where it should be. Moly coated bullets don't help this situation either, because if you clean thoroughly and remove a lot of the moly, it can take several shots to get the moly back into the bore and get the POI to settle down.

Now, if it does the same thing from a cold but fouled barrel, the barrel is probably making contact with the stock. Then, as the barrel heats up and expands slightly, the stock is pressing on it more and you end up with a string of shots.

Harold,

Please post your progress on this problem: enquiring minds and all that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jim

Hunter jim: Appreciate your input and interest in my problem with this rifle. Rifle deer season is over but I;m still bowhunting so no time to fool with the rifle. Ken Howell advised me to check torque on action mount and scope mount so when time permits will do that. this rifle is box stock , no work except to lighten the trigger. Planning to get something to get the moly out and attempt to break it in the old fashioned way. Jim, this is the third rifle I've started out on coated bullets , the first a Rem. 7600, then a Rem 7400, both 270 cal. neither would shoot better than a 4 in. group but considering the fact that one was a pump and the other an auto figured I was just expecting too much. I've owned two other Winchesters previously, one a 308 the other a 300 win mag. both were excellent with the 300 being a tack driver. Too make a long story short, Your opinion concerning coated bullets is beggining to make sense, as what I'm experiencing tends to verify it. Others seem to be in agreement too. When I get to it will see what happens with good cleaning and jacketed bullets, again thanks and will keep you posted . Harold haroldhartley@yahoo.com

Hi Rick: Appreciate your interest and reply to my post. This rifle is box stock . Did adjust trigger. I'm inclined too agree with several other opinions about coated bullets as I've experienced this same problem with two other rifles. When time permits will give this one a good cleaning and try jacketed bullets. will see what happens with factory loads and if results are not satisfactory will try some from Superior. Once again Thanks for your input. Will keep you posted haroldhartley@yahoo.com

Hello Wisegeezer. Appreciate your input. I'm inclined to agree with your opinion concerning coated bullets. The first shot is from a fouled barrel. nothing has been done to this rifle except for trigger adjust. Am going to check scope mount and toque on action mount then try jacketed bullets after a good cleaning. Will keep you posted when time permits getting to these things. Thanks again, Harold haroldhartley@yahoo.com

Hello squirrelsniper: Thanks for your reply to my post. Am going to check several other things when time permits then clean the barrel and try jacketed bullets and see what happens. Will keep you posted and thanks again haroldhartley@yahoo.com

Gale McMillan's thoughts from The Firing Line:
Gale McMillan
Senior Member posted September 25, 1999 10:10 AM
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The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in

Problem solved! As it turns out , bedding was the problem as several of you suggested. I took a dollar bill and tried to pass it between barrel and stock. It wouldn' go. Went to a local gun store and checked several of theirs the same way and the bill would pass so i took it apart and sanded the stock until a bill would pass then sealed the wood and cleaned the barrel good. bought a box of federal with jacketed bullets and shot it from a rest. after a fouling shot and two groups of three shots and minor scope adjustments it shot 1 in. group. All I can say is thanks to everybody for your help You all are the best!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> haroldhartley@yahoo.com [color:"red"] [/color]

Harold,

Glad to hear that you solved your problem so easily!

I have been to two of Kenny Jarret's seminars on barrel cleaning now, and I believe his theories are accurate. At least he shows video shot through a medical quality bore scope (Kenny says the Docs run it up "wangers" for a lot more money than he gets <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

He can show the alternating layers that fouling will deposit, and the "donut" that can form at the chamber/barrel junction. Kenny sells a batch of barrels each year, and these are mainly hunting rifles. They will be shot for many years before a new barrel is needed. Twenty rounds of break in won't matter in their accurate life.

I don't use moly, and Kenny says he does not endorse it because or barrels he has sent out being returned as out of accuracy spec after moly bullets were used.

jim

Hi Jim: Due to my experience with coated bullets which is certainly not as extensive as Kenny Jarrets I will not be using them anymore either. I'm glad that this barrel wasn't ruined and the fix was pretty simple. Again, thanks for your help, I sure appreciate it haroldhartley@yahoo.com