Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Model 70 vs Mauser 98?

EDNHunter,
first of all I have to tell all the Lon Paul Win. M-70 owned by 458 Win has been a conflict of friedship in that he won't let me have it! and I have humbled myself to him to no avail!

I like the Mausers for a number of reason and could scribe volumes as to why but I will only go with the basics for his post.

I like the gas handleing qualities of the Mauser and that cannot be argued by any knowledgable person..I also like the fact that the Mauser is case hardened in critical parts and only on the surface..This is to stop fragmentation if the gun blows up, A Mauser will only swell up like a baloon or in worst case scenarios will split, but not fracture...The M-70 will fragment like a granade..However when both are properly loaded this won't be a problem, its human error that causes this uncalled for situation, but never the less I like the idea of haveing an edge.

I like the bolt slop that makes it a battle rifle and keep it functional in sand, dirt, snow and mud..but in lock up its firm and solid as a rock..It does not have the Mod 70 cone chamber thus totally encases the case in steel, but if a ruptured case or spewing primer occurs it directs the gas out the side port hole wherein a M-70 directs it back into your face and I had this happen on a win. pre 64 M-70 243 and had a bunch of little curly cue smoke colums coming out of tine pepper looking black holes in my forehead, fortunately I have glasses on, so damage was nill and actually looked pretty funny in my truck rear view mirrow when I inspected my face for damage! looked like a minor brush fire!

There are other reasons and their are volumes available for those that care to study the Mauser actions...Paul Mauser and his brother were genious and far ahead of their time and even today they are still copied but have not been improved one bit, the original milsurp mauser is the perfect bolt action battle rifle and can be modified to a perfect sporter but that does not improve on its original design, it just makes it more scope and user friendly..

The Springfield, M-70 and to a lesser extent the Rem 700 is a second rate copy of the mauser IMO..Most guild members and well known custom gun makers agree with me on this subject..but again the M-70 is a first rate rifle..

Ray, I'll let you look at it - along with my Lon Paul 9.3x62. Although it is "only" on an old military Enfield

Mr. Atkinson

Is it just the old mausers that were hardened as you describe or are the new mausers hardened the same?

What is the best Mauser doner rifle to use? Where do you find them. I am thinking 404 Jeffery. Lon Paul makes some beautiful rifles.

It is probably worth noting that Echols bases his Legend on the M70 and I think David Miller is M70 based.

I think that has to do with the fact that the M-70 classic is easily available and takes a lot less work to make into a very nice rifle - especially in the 3.6" magnum length cartridges - than a Mauser. Both D'Arcy and David have, and will, build rifles with a Mauser action but they cost quite a bit more.

Also, D'Arcy has McMillan make the synthetic stock he designed for the Model 70 Classic. This makes putting together the Legend more "affordable" than fitting a syn-stock to various actions.

Here is a recent photo of a 505 Gibbs Mauser D'Arcy built for one of my bear hunting clients. It came a bit steeper than his Legend series though.

Wow,look at how thick the sidewalls are on that box magazine!Built for heavy duty use and recoil,too.Nice work!

IIRC Miller worked in concert with the Winchester boys to design the M70 Classic action....he built,I think, the first M70 rifle on that action.

Good thread!

I suspect with Echols that his customers for the Legend are a bit accuracy minded and no matter you cut it the M70 has about the best bedding configuration and the Mauser the worse.

They're almost identical.

Well I guess they are both flat bottomed.

For starters there is the tang. Next, the recoil lug on the M70 is as big as they comes and the Mauser is as small as they come.

The best donor Mausers are the Chilians, G33-40, Pruruvians, some of the 1909s and it's best to spend the extra $50 to have them softened and then brought back up to specs...The new Mausers on the market are probably done this way, but I wouldn't swear to it..The lovely FNs are great action but not as good as the above by a long shot..FNs should not be converted to STWs, Rums, etc..

Today if I was inclined to build another 404 Jefferys, I would find a good Win. M-70 in 300 or 375 RUM as the action and box will fit a 404 Jefferys with a modicum of tweeking and you will have a gun that will feed 110%...I don't want another 404 Jefferys on a std. Mauser action as its really hard to find a metalsmith that will properly do one, and it takes a world of skill that few have and a good big M-20 type Mauser action is bloody expensive, starting at $4500.

What are the differences between a M-20 and a BRNO 602? Don't know much about the M-20.
One thing for Mauser, Mr. Wells liked them................

If you want a 404 (can't imagine why)it sure is a lot of work and .422 bullets do not abound. Why not just find a Ruger RSM in 458 Lott and keep it simple? Or you if you want "different" you could build a 400 H&H like I did that shoots the same weight bullet faster and uses the very available .411 bullet? And there's always the CZ deluxe in 505 Gibbs... I do covet one for no rational reason.

My 400 H&H:



244, 300, 375, 400 H&H

OLdman 1942,
On ocassion I get the impression that you must live on a different planet than I do!!

The 404 Jefferys is a wonderful caliber, it's .423 not .422 and bullets are plentiful and available, as is brass and reloading data..

It is certainly a better option than the 400 H&H which is pretty much morabound, and was a complete failure at the box office and the 505 is repetiticous of every thing you claimed about the 404, you just keep me in state of confusion as to your thinking...At times you seem very knowledgeable and at other times your out in space! Good luck with that! :)and yes, I realize our arterys are hardening, but we must do our best to slow the process and your not trying very hard!

Best Regards,
Oldman 1934

So you are telling me there is a bigger choice in 423 than 411.
O-kay
My computer says .422: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.404_Jeffery.
Neither one have a lot of popularity I agree and were I just to want one bigbore it would be the Lott in a 77 like the 375 I just bought.You can't even buy a so so wood and blue M-70 375 with its horrible stock for what I gave for this beauty.



But I do admit to liking strange things too.
R.F. Sedgley 22-06

Of course they are. Didn't you know the M70 you built for me in .300 WSM is too narrow...

Atkinson,

A .404 Jeffrey. Great cartridge of it's day. However wouldn't the .416 Taylor duplicate the ballistics and be a lot easier to load ammo for? Just wondering...

Look at cz's 550 magnum, it's basically a large mauser action by design (obviously modified some). It can handle up to .505 gibbs easily. Large magnum mauser actions have been available to hunters since the early 20th century, at a much lower price than many double rifles, not to say that many big bore mausers aren't being made for over 10,000$ nowadays...... But that's not the point, the winchester 70 is a good gun, but it's not designed to handle power like the mauser magnum actions. Building a big bore, go with mauser. The bolt action reliability is there, and has been there since bolt actions started being made for africa.