Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Partition Failure?

but without bending back the bottom crimp?

mac- that has kept me scratching my head since you posted the pics...how did the rear core come out without deforming the crimp? I keep coming back to the possibility that there wasn't one, as was alluded to earlier. Was there any evidence of lead in the rear cavity of the jacket?

mousegun- if you're using Hornady SST bullets with the belief that they're bonded, as stated in one of your posts, you may want to do a little more homework. Also, could you expound on your comment regarding a Partition's manufacture?

Dale

gee guys, I'm sorry for pointing out that your bullet sucks. Remember, if it failed once, It'll fail again.

The sst is not bonded, but the interbond is, my bad. Hornady claims in the 2003 catalog that their bonding process "...holds the core and jacket together no matter the bullet encounters. Quite simply , the core will never, ever, ever,ever,ever separate from the jacket!" (interbond).

But nobody here uses bonded bullets, so they must suck and the 2 piece non bonded partitions are great because their popular here, never mind that your bullet failed. According to the keyboard experts here, the lead became molten and poured out all over the woods or something. Who knows baybe it got struck by lightning, or Mt St Helens burped, or the earths gravitational pull failed. but thats ok, its a popular bullet.

According to the nosler website, regarding their new AccuBond bullet, is made with a process that "eliminates voids in the bullet core". Hmm, wonder if they had a problem here. By the way the accubond has a solid core.

The Swift A-frame is a good dual core bullet but I prefer the Scirocco. The trophy bonded bear claws are also great solid core bullets. SmithRite also makes a good product. For a few dollars more, you can have the best, and lets face it, the bonded bullets have awesome weight retention. The bonded bullets are the future of hunting bullets. Shot placement is everything, but after seeing the poor quality of the partitions, I will never use one, no matter what your excuses are for it's failure. Like i said, bonded bullets dont separate and have nearly full weight retention.

Any bullet that struck someting on it's way to the target is going to fail in one degree or another. Even if the bullet was in one piece (ie: a bonded bullet), chances are striking the animal sidways would have lead to poor bullet performance anyway.

I was just wondering mousegun, if you have ever shot game with Partition bullets? I have taken game with Partitions and feel that though they are not perfect, they perform good. Place a Partition where it belongs in game and they kill. The only time I beleive they might be prone to fail is at real high velocity, then any lead core bullet, even a bonded core, has a high chance of failing then. Of course, I think the impact velocity would have to be over 3400fps.

I shot a Buffalo (Bison) once with a 308 Winchester with a 180gr Partition. The shot was through the neck at real close range. The neck of a big bull bison (this one was over 2000lbs) is tougher to shoot through than the shoulders of an elk. There is just more muscle and bone. The bullet stopped under the hide and the bull polexed right now. Nosler could use that expanded bullet for an add promoting Partitions. It looked picture perfect, even after shooting through thick hide, skin dense muscle, heavy spine and more dense muscle. I beleive it weighed just over 150 grs afterwards.

I shot 130gr .270 cal Partitons through both shoulders of heavy Nebraska Whitetails and they exited everytime, even after breaking both shoulders (rare to break both shoulders but I have done it)

I have seen them take dozens of animals and many others have seen them take hundreds of animals. I think Partiton failer is not very common, and only if impact velocity was really up there OR, IF, the bullet strikes an object on it's way to the animal. Maybe the bonded bullet might have done a better job, maybe not, it is mere speculation to come to any prediction. Either way, a deflected bullet is not so good.

CM

I have shot probably 500 of them at targets and know for certain that the Partiton has to be one of the most accurate hunting bullets made.

I hate to break it to anyone who thinks the "Nirvana" of bullets might be found in making them bonded but it ain't so. Bonded bullets aren't necessarily nor always better than some of the others whether or not those others happen to be popular here or elsewhere. And bullet weight ain't everything either, nor is terminal bullet shape but it must not be overlooked. The shape of the bullet as it expands and after it has expanded has a lot to do with how and how well it works. Bonding a bullet does help retain the original mass and thank goodness for that because bonded bullets often expand to a diameter which creates terrific drag and consequently need a lot of mass to get adequate penetration. That, of course mean more destruction in its path but limits the length of the path. While this is essentially what simple cup and core bullets have been doing for years, bonding has made the principle more reliable.

A large expansion "parachute" is not always a desirable feature especially when penetration is one of the higher priorities. Take a look at what has made the Barnes X such a success for those numbered among its fans. It doesn't create a large expansion, doesn't destroy an initial voluminous path; it just penetrates like crazy leaving a moderate path of destruction long and deep. Gee, I wonder if the guys who came up with the X idea ever studied now the Partition worked? There are some strong similarities in terminal performance. The Partition does maintain a slimmer profile for penetrating deep by often losing some weight off the front while doing massive damage initially.

I am not a great fan of the Partition though it is the projectile I like in some rifles and calibers, nor have I yet developed a fondness for bonded bullets. One needs only to look at the record established by the bullet against which all others are judged, the bullet which has probably the single largest place in the record books in terms of accomplishment and still the one which many turn to when there is any question about how to reliably make the shot count on a high value hunt: Nosler Partition.

You can deny a lot of things if you want -(sticking with "reindeer can't really fly" is safe and smart) but don't try to deny that the Partition isn't any good. But shoot whatever you like!

I really struck a nerve here. I just pointed out that the partition actually failed. You posted the pics!!! Not me!! the thread reads Partition failure, not my words! Partition style bullets have weak frontal areas. as was stated by a chap who shot a buff in the bush, the a-frame split and deflected, but it did hold togther. I also believe the p's have a problem with "voids in the bullet core", EXPLAINING why BOTH cores had NO lead. this forum is nothing but a sounding board for whats popular. you can criticize premium trophy bonded bullets all day long. I dont care. The minute someone criticizes the "holy grail" around here, all hell breaks lose. you people are going through life with blinders, afraid to admit that there might be something better, wether it be bullets, guns, scopes, binos, trucks or boots. Just keep repeating the same thing, over and over and over.

I concede, bonded bullets suck and the partitions, (see pics above), are the only way to go. Bullet makers like Speer, Swift, Hornady, and yes, even Nosler are all going with bonded bullets, maybe they should hang out here and learn from the experts. Most PH's prefer them. I've used just about every bullet I can think of, and they all kill, but there is a difference in terminal performance. I know, you killed 27 elk, 54 witetail, 14 mulies, 97 coyotes, 15 caribou, 60 bull moose and one cow with partitions and in your minds there the best. Thanks for setting the world strait on the bullet issue. I'm sure the issue will be put to rest now and wont have to be brought up again for a long time.

mousegun--

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but your ignorance is astounding. You appear to be one of those who refuse to use a certain bullet (or whatever) because you somehow know your "special" brand is better. Just how you know this without some experience is something of a mystery.

First, as has been stated by others already here, no bullet will act as designed if it hits something else before the animal--as this bullet obviously did.

Second, one of the "great" bonded bullets you mention, the Swift A-Frame, does NOT have the rear core bonded to the jacket. Only the front core is bonded--and the partition is not only copper (not as strong as the gilding metal in a Nosler Partition) but generally the partition of an A-Frame isn't as thick as that of the same diameter/weight Nosler.

If an A-Frame meets enough resistance, the rear core (unbonded, remember?) can actually punch through the partition--in which case the whole front half of the bullet can break loose. I know this because I have seen it happen.

To me, bonding the front half of a bullet but not the rear is bass-ackwards.

Anything can happen to a bullet if it meets enough resistance, but I have seen upwards of 100 Nosler Partitions fired into all size game animals from 100 pounds up to 2000+, without a failure of any sort. I know they can happen, but they can happen with any bullet.

Bonded bullets can and do separate. In fact, they generally do, at least partially, because in almost every one I've recovered, at least some of the core was wiped from the front of the jacket. I've used a pile of them, from A-Frames to Scirrocos to Accubonds to Ultra Core-Lokts to Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.

Retained weight is OK, but far from the only criterion to judge a bullet. If you want penetration, the way to get it is with a bullet that retains a long shank, even after hitting something hard. This means the Barnes X, Fail Safe, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (which combines the solid shank of the X with a little bonded core in the front end only--I doubt the front even needs to be bonded) and North Fork (kind of a cross between the Barnes Triple Shock and Trophy Bonded).

What might be called "standard" bonded bullets, made with just a one-piece jacket bonded to a long core, are numerous: Scirocco, Kodiak, Interbond, Accubond, Ultra Core-Lokt, Norma Oryx, Bitterroot Bonded Core. They all tend to retain a good percentage of weight, but none of them will penetrate as deeply as an X, Fail Safe, or Trophy Bonded of the same diameter and weight, because they open wider. For that matter, none will consistently penetrate as deeply as a Nosler Partition of the same weight and diameter.

Which one you choose all depends on penetration versus expansion. Price to a certain extent has nothing to do with it. I know because I've shot most of these into game, and all of them into test media.

MD

mousegun, you're ignorance is pretty evident.

Chuck

MD- I think this answers the mystery:

mousegun- just 'cuz a company makes a claim doesn't mean it's so. Barnes puts a little brochure in their TSX boxes that states "And they won't come apart-ever!" From the pictures Spike posted from a cow hunt earlier this year the TSX obviously CAN come apart. Won't keep me from using them for certain applications though. Just like I'll keep using the Partition at times. And even "lowly" cup-and-core bullets! EVERY bullet will fail at some point in its history. Good luck on your quest to find one that won't! BTW, I'm still waiting for your evidence that Partitions are cheaply made.

Dale

stop picking on me guys, I already conceded.; the above pics are DIFINITIVE proof that partitions are, in fact, far superior than any other bullet on the market. I must've been drunk to think anything else is, dare i say, better.

I plan to auction off all my premium hunting bullets on e-bay, now i know they will NOT work on any game, at least not as well as the partitions, (see above pics).

By the way, I did note the a-frame is not my first choice, I just used that as an example from another poster.

Now you can all chime in and ...Blah blah blah...

IF the bullet hit something on its way to the deer, then the bullet didn't fail, the shooter did. I use TSX's, Partitions, and the dreaded Hornady Interlocks. For their intended purpose, they all do the job. TSX's are a tad more accurate in my rifles. Partitions do just fine, but they are more frangible. I have even used Sierras and the old solid base Noslers. They have all killed game. Killed means dead. As someone else so aptly put it, there is only one kind of dead.

And a bullet that kills a deer dead did not fail. It was meant to kill a deer and it killed a deer. That is success, not failure.
Now suck in your lower lip before a bird poops on it and go hunting with a BB gun. Those round copper bullets work great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You need to get out more. The Nosler Partition didn't make its reputation as the premium game bullet to which all others are compared on this forum. It already had it before this forum existed, before Al Gore invented the internet and even before the invention of the Commodore 64.

Really, how long have you been hunting?

Me thinks somebodies match season is over and they decided to TROLL a little!!

Mike

Reading original post, the shooter recovered the bullet; difficult to do from a live critter! If this one didn't put it down, the next one did.

IMHO the term "bullet failure" should only be applied when everything is done right, the bullet goes in the right spot at a reasonable velocity without hitting intervening dirt, wood, or other critters, but the targetted critter (meat) fails to fall over and die within a short time.

While "struck b7y lightning" kills do happen, the more bullet you put to meat, the more strange, upsetting, weird stuff you will see.

The rules are, take the best shot you can from as close as you can safely get. In this case, an already wounded animal, some leeway is permitted and macrabbit did the right thing, he put the deer down.

Too often equipment is blamed for deficiencies in the shot; the scots bunny knew he was taking a marginal shot, so the fact that the bullet didn't behave normally is no surprise.

Just a couple more points for our friend mousegun:

Nosler can make Partitions more cheaply than many other companies can make their premium bullets because they've been at it longer and sell a lot more bullets. They've perfected the machinery (probably paid for, and not owned by some bank) to make bullets quickly--and any businessman knows that volume tends to lower costs.

Two, bonding is not some new, cutting-edge process. Bill Steigers got the ball rolling in the 1960's with the Bitterroot Bonded Core. So bonding is not some sudden apparition, pointing way for all the lowly and ignorant users of Nosler Partitions and Barnes X's.

MD

MD

I have now used Nosler Partition bullets for 37 yrs. and have yet to see a problem, they are now better than they ever were. I also use Trophy Bonded, Swift A-Frame and Kodiak bullets and think that they are just fine, but, NPs are my first choice. I have seen somewhere close to 200 big game kills and most of those were with NPs, this includes a number of large Grizzlies.

As to Smithrite Bullets, I know Russ Smith and have known him for some 15 yrs; I was just talking to him the day before yesterday when he kindly asked my opinion on the design features of some new bullets he is going to make. I will be discussing this with him, relative to North American DGR bullets, after the New Year. Mousegun, tell us, exactly how many and what Partitions have you ever seen fail?

macrabbit,

Did you recover both bullets?

No, the lung/gutter was a pass-thru. No way to know if it hit a branch.

This pic shows a different but similar tree scene. Imagine a doe standing on the bank 15 yds behind that screen.

Have you seen similar performance when the Partition strikes hard objects such as the knuckle bone on the point of the shoulder? Also, if the bullet struck a branch mid flight and caused the complete failure witnessed in your pictures, it would seem unlikely that the bullet would actually strike the deer.

I have missed two bucks as fairly short ranges in the lsat two years hitting limbs and strangely enough they were both with Nosler partiotions, 125 gr in my 260 thisyear and a 165 in 3006 last year. I can;t imagine that is nosler;s fault. I would really like to see what the Nosler guys have to say. You should post the pic on www.noslerreloading.com and see what they say.