Thankyou for the compliment, I am human enough to enjoy being refered to as a "genius", even by you whose opinion of me is about as substantial as a popcorn fart in a gale.
Both you and your pal, MG, come onto this forum and start badmouthing some of the most highly respected folks here and then complain when you are told about your stupid attitude.....what's the problem, girls, PMS getting to you????
Just did some checking- you two have a combined total of 21 posts and seventeen are on this subject. All of your buddys posts are just on this one. That comes out about four under your ages and five or six points higher than you collective IQs
All I found was the jacket- no core fore or aft and I couldn't find where some lead might have exited the ham. The bottom crimp is still all there but the base is out of its .308 round to .302 X .315. There are no dents in the shaft of the jacket.
I'd really like to know how the rear core escaped from its crimp.
It wouldn't give a first time Partition user much confidence in the bullet, I'm sure, but it does demonstrate the fact that verey bullet can sometimes do something other than what we expect or want - and it isn't always easy to figure out why. I do think it is important to understand why bullets fail (without making excuses) before they be judged too harshly
Pretty clean. Possibly "failure" at manufacture
I have seen partitions do this several times. The ones I have recovered are usually going backwards in the meat. The petals....or lack of act more like a FMJ. I am definitely not a partition lover. I have seen them do WAY too many weird things for my taste. Your example is not uncommon. Flinch
It lookjs to me like Nosler forget the lead in the ass end of that bullet.
but also in general, they work better in the heavier weights, which leave a lot more shank to both push the mushroom and stabilize the bullet inside the animal.
but without bending back the bottom crimp?
mac- that has kept me scratching my head since you posted the pics...how did the rear core come out without deforming the crimp? I keep coming back to the possibility that there wasn't one, as was alluded to earlier. Was there any evidence of lead in the rear cavity of the jacket?
Every make and model of bullet has a certain percentage of "failure" associated with it.
Every make and model of bullet has a certain percentage of "failure" associated with it.
Looks like there are some kids around here who need to pull their pants up to their waist, turn their hats around forward and turn down the volume on Snoop Dog.
Partitions enjoy a well deserved reputation for good expansion, deep penetration and reliable performance on all manner of big game. I have no doubts that some have failed in the past and will in the future. For those that do not have confidence in them for any reason, there are plenty of suitable alternatives. I don't reckon there's much call for the punkish responses being spewed forth.
Tell me, what game have you shot with, for example, Smithrite bullets, and how do they perform????? I have NO problem with your opinions or your bullet choices, but, calling people names here ain't gonna win you many supporters and NO friends.....except maybe that microcephalic infant who cannot even spell his own pitiful attempts at insults.
Hey paul, or do you prefer Pops? anyhoo, according to the people with the most posts, and least amount of trigger time, there ARE no alternatives to partitoins! better get your bi-focals checked.
Looks like there are some kids around here who need to pull their pants up to their waist, turn their hats around forward and turn down the volume on Snoop Dog.
Sorry if that hit home with you Mousegun. You weren't my intended target.
You can call me Pops if you wish. The kids I work with (military) call me Pops, and gramps as well as some other terms of endearment (normally from behind during our fitness run).
Mousegun, I don't think anyone here would bust your chops if you just made your case without the confrontational overtones. I enjoy hearing varying opinions. If everone thought the way I do this place would be boring. It doesn't matter if it's a persons first or ten thousandth post, If it's got substance, it's got value. I am a Partition fan because I have had great results with them. They are not the Lord of all bullets. I read with great interest when folks have undesireable results with them.
In all sincerety, I think we all visit these forums for essentially the same reasons. Information, fellowship and entertainment. While your posts certainly do justice to the latter, I think we would all benefit from your contributions if you catered a little more to the other areas. Some of the things you say make good sense to me. Stick around a while, post often, lighten up and enjoy yourself. This forum is known for it's friendly atmosphere. If you want a good forum for pissing matches try accurate reloading. Some of those guys hold nothing back in treating each other like crap.
Well I have been dragged into these internet wars before and it usually isn't to productive. It's way to easy to read one another wrong in the absence of non verbal cues. People who would probably be friends in person can jump to assumptions and spin off in the wrong direction. Been there recently in fact.
So back to partitions: I have had good luck on game with them in 60 grain .224, 125 grain6.5/ 150 grain ,308/ 225 grain 358 and 300 grain 458.
In comparative testing on wet newsprint I have noticed that they at times tumble and the back is deformed but the lead will not squirt out easily and I don't understand the result shown in the picture. I wondered if the long shank after expansion requires more spin to keep stable in dense targets. My 16 Twist .358 Norma magnum has 250 grain partitions shooting well on targets but tumbling in catalogues much of the time.
They aren't cheap and seem pretty foolproof. I respect the research of Bob Hagel and he was a real fan of the partition.
That was a very astute observation and very well stated, I'm done with this and thank you for your welcome and wise intervention. I am also a huge fan of Bob Hagel, but, I find that MD is getting there and he is a genuinely courteous guy, as well.
Mousegun, sorry, I do not buy this. I would bet my house that you don't have any evidence of partitions doing that several times. There are other good bullets, but I have about 80 personal big game kills with partitions, and having seen another 20 or so, I can't imagine this result happening, much less being common.
I have no problem "eating" anything I've said nor for that matter any reason to do so. I do have problems with taking words out of context as you have. In my case what you left out of the paragraph you borrowed the quote from wasn't very significant but it does change the meaning I intended to some degree. What I wrote was:
Quote
Fortunately the Partition has a fine reputation and reliable following otherwise your example would be drawing plenty of negative comments. It wouldn't give a first time Partition user much confidence in the bullet, I'm sure, but it does demonstrate the fact that [ever]y bullet can sometimes do something other than what we expect or want - and it isn't always easy to figure out why. I do think it is important to understand why bullets fail (without making excuses) before they be judged too harshly.
I didn't realize how prophetic that statement would be. I do think the last line is one you might want to review in light of the fact that context seems to elude your evaluation of what you read and observe. Using that logic one might believe a Sciorroco "failed" after finding the splattered evidence scattered in the vicinity of the ram. (Of course it might help to understand that I am thinking of the steel silhouette ram used in the competitive sport, not hunting of live animals.)
Context is important. I don't think you would find many people here or elsewhere who would fault your favorite bullet, whatever it happens to be, just because you weren't able to hit your target with it even if the range was only 50 yards - and you happened to be shooting through tall grass or brush. And is not missing possibly the greatest form of bullet failure?
Contrary to what you might want to believe, not all defenders of this bullet are great fans of it. I'm not. I do know it has been a very useful and reliable bullet for many people, however. I just don't choose to use it much. You can disparage it all you want - as long as you provide evidence. That evidence should be statistically relevent also, not chosen for specifics. In other words it makes no sense to look only at the failures without also considering the successes or vice versa. Anything can fail - in many different ways. Everything we use has a failure rate.
The Partition is one of the factors in hunting that can be relied on to keep the failure rate lower - there is statistical evidence for that.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
You can go to www.gun-tests.com under "Tools and Techniques" and "Ammunition" to read about partition's low retention weight and poor performance compared to other bullets.
Partitions have a reputation of coming apart after hitting heavy bone at fast speeds- close shots and the faster moving calibers.
Well, I should probably just keep my mouth shut, but after reading all that banter [some of it a bit hostile], I'll add my experience with Partitions. The one pictured is an unusual failure, IMHO. How the rear core got ejected without opening the crimp, I cannot say, but if the bullet was tumbling at high RPMs, then perhaps that soft lead could do that. I have a couple of samples of Partitions that have slid forward against the Partition so hard on impact, that they "bulged " the jacket quite a bit just back of the partition. I have shot exactly 64 head of game with Partitions. The lion's share have been Moose and Elk. I have recovered 14 of those [about 22%] The rest have exited the animal. My confidence in the Partition over 40+ years of use is quite high. They are not perfect bullets, but for me, They have NEVER failed to get the job done reliably, even when I have asked them to do things bullets probably should not be depended on to do. [ Texas heart shot on an Elk, Front shoulder shot on a large Bull Moose on a quartering-toward presentation] I have pictures of the recovered bullets. None have the rear core missing, but several have the front gone. I have used bonded bullets also, including the Bitterroots mentioned by another poster. They were good expanders, but the large frontal area they made often halted penetration too quickly on angled shots. The Scirocco does not hold up well at high velocity IF it has to break any larger bone. I turned one completely inside out in a moose with the 30-06. On broadside shots, it has been superb, though. Trouble is, you cannot count on broadside shots being presented. Any bullet will become suspect in it's performance if it contacts something before it hits the animal. I had just such an experience with a smallish Bull Moose and the 180 partition out of the 308 Norma Mag. The bullet, aimed for the heart-lung area, struck a frozen twig about �" in diameter 20' in front of the moose. The bullet struck the moose in the neck [2' from point of aim] and fortunately hit the spinal column and exited out the top of his neck. Did not recover it, obviously, but it may have been interesting to see. The entrance wound was oblong, so obviously the bullet was unstable. I shot at a large muley buck with a Bitterroot many years ago through a similar bunch of brush as was shown on this thread. The bullet never even reached him! Fortunately, he decided to hang around while I picked a spot through the mess and dispatched him with another shot. I believe the Partition displayed here struck something before it hit the deer. The dramatic loss of both cores of this one bullet in no way changes my opinion of this bullet. Regards, Eagleye.
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
Partitions have a reputation of coming apart after hitting heavy bone at fast speeds- close shots and the faster moving calibers.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I have used the 140 Partition at 3250+ in my 264 Win Mag, and the 160 Partition from the 7mm STW at Similar velocities, and shot game at very short range, and even where heavy bone was encountered, I have not seen this "reputation" reveal itself. We're not talking deer bones here either. Moose and Elk. It may happen, but a reputation for doing so....I think not!! EE
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
