Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives The real difference between gas & diesel....

It's been a few years since it happened to me, but I've been told here that diesel trucks with over 100k miles are hard for dealers to sell, and as a result they don't bring much at trade-in. Also, here at least some banks won't lend money on a diesel or gas truck that has over 100k miles on it.
When you buy one here is when a dealer raves about how high the resale is going to be on it, not when you go to actually trade it in. Go frigger.

I think you were told wrong about the being hard to sell. Any truck with over 100K is going to be harder to sell, but not because its diesel. If anything the opposite is true.

Diesel motor w/ 100,000 miles = just broke-in good. Gas motor w/ 100,000 miles = about to be broke down. I'm exaggerating of course, but you get my point.

Bill

Based on what you have said, if you add the initial cost for the diesel engine, to a gas engine truck, the prices would be approximately the same. $8000 + $7000 = $15,000. The extra cost for oil changes due to increased oil capacity, fuel filters, fuel additives, etc. are not added in.

+3. Right now there are so many good deals on 3/4 and 1 ton used diesel pickup trucks, the new price differential between diesel and gas of $7,000 - $8,000 that everyone spouts off is meaningless.

I get your point and couldn't agree with you more. I'm just telling what I was told when it came time to get a new truck. Remember, I was telling what a car salesman had said...

I can assure you seemingly wealthly people that $8000 or even $7000 dollars is meaningless. Not when I can invest that initial money and and double or triple it in 5 years time!

No Tonk its not meaningless, now your just being silly. I invest quite a bit too.

I consider the engine in my truck an INVESTMENT, like I said I don't trade trucks every 2-3 yrs, I need the motor in my truck to still be going strong well after 100,000 miles, more like 200,000. With a diesel I can and have done that confidently, I wouldn't trust a hard worked gas enegine past 130,000-150,000 miles.

So basically I get about 3 more years of useful service out of my diesel motor at 25,000-28,000 miles a yr which is what I average.

Sometimes wise investing is not worrying so much about the up front cost and more about the savings/return on the back end, but being the expert investor you are I'm sure you knew that.

BTW since I drive my trucks 6-8 yrs and pay them off in 3 yrs I invest the money those last 5 yrs of not making payments, so there you go bigshot.

Bill

Tonk,

Maybe you can share some of your investments strategies with us. What? .... Tripling your money in five years. I, for one, am all ears. Seriously, let's hear it. Specifically, how you've done the last five years, also.

I never been to the Ozark mountains in Missouri (which I thought were in Arkansas, stupid me, I know), but I got a little mountain chain called the Rockies right at my back door. I wouldn't be without at least one diesel pickup.

R Walter, I don't share such information with my in laws, let alone a complete stranger! Now I don't believe I stated I would turn that money around and triple it in todays market but I can sure has hell tell you I have done so in past years several times.

However, we are in a semi-depression state and to double the money would be a good thing if this market stays this way for the next 2.5 years........don't know, I don't have a magic wond. I also do not throw money away, so to purchase a diesel truck and not haul & pull heavy, running long for a substantial period of time, inorder to justify the cost or to make up the difference in cost compared to a V-10 gas rig is ludicrous.

I can you and others this much, if your not working that diesel truck at least 6 days a week and hauling heavy loads for 10 hours a day during that time slot, your just losing money verses a gas rig....Now that much I do know fella!

I've had gas and diesels and currently have a 2007 5.9 Cummins Dodge. We like the torque to tow. Another factor for us is that we are a far bit out of town and like to keep a couple hundred gallons of fuel on hand. Would much rather store diesel than gas. The diesel can be used in our tractor, cat and generator. Typically use off road diesel for these uses, but having a couple hundred gallons of road diesel provides an extra backup.

Logger

Tonk,

One question, have you ever owned a diesel p/u?

And BTW I said several posts ago I was not knocking your gas rig, if you don't do enough towing then your right for not owning one.

Its seems its you who just can't let it go, and just have to knock diesel p/u owners. Did someone with a diesel p/u wrong you in some way at one time?

Bill

To answer your question of someone wronging me, who owned a diesel pickup truck.......NO! YOU sound like your trying to play the part of the resident Psychiatrist!!!

Now as far as letting it go, I have no axe to grind with any diesel pickup truck owners to date. I am a little annoyed at some, who actually believe, driving a diesel pickup truck is heaven in disguise. Also those who wish to preach how much they are saving over owning a gas rig and these people never hardly pull or haul a blessed thing but a washing machine home from Sears. Now do I own a diesel pickup? Oh yes we certainly do, in the form of a Ford 3/4 ton 1997 model with 285,000 miles on the truck. Also own a 1986 Ford 3/4 ton gas engine with 77,000 original miles on the truck.

Now my V-10 gets 9mpg pulling 10,000 to 12,000 pounds and todays high dollar diesel rigs get right around the 12mpg. Dodge with Cummins and Ford do I know, from having friends who are still bitching about the fuel mileage. So at 3-mpg difference in mileage, the diesel truck owner just might retrieve the cost of that ($8,000) diesel truck in about 20 years or so of driving. So tell me how much more money you are saving, when the fuel usually runs .25 to .50 cents more a gallon than an owner with a V-10 gas engine?

You seem to me like you have an axe to grind, also. Especially when you keep repeating the $8,000 spread even though it has been pointed out several times that amount doesn't evaporate as you suggest.

As far as doubling or tripling your money in 5 years like you also suggest due to your investment abilities. Do you know the rule of 72 as far as it relates to investments? Basically, it means that you must average 14.4% per year to double your money every 5 years. I saw you back off that comment a bit when referring to the current economy, but your overall comments and tone comes across like Bill is suggesting.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. How much to rebuild your V10 at 200k miles when my Cummins ain't breathing hard yet?

I wish everyone the best with their choice for a pickup. Every advantage is arguably a disadvantage, no use getting too worked up about it.

I chose a diesel because I wanted something heavy duty that would last. I can't justify it with the limited use I give it, but I like it. Always liked Cummins engines, got a truck with one. The truck itself hasn't seen the dealer since it left it four years ago. I look forward to tweaking it to get some real performance out of it.

Maintenance costs have not been a problem. Yes, the carbon footprint is substantial, but not likely to break you. An oil change will cost you about $50 more than a gasser if you include the fuel filter and use dino oil, $80/$90 more than a gasser using Mobil 1. That's doing it yourself, a shop will of course charge more. That's the only maintenance I have done in four years, so I guess I have spent about $100 more a year on maintenance. Except for the spike in diesel prices in 2008 fuel costs pretty much balance out when considering the extra mpgs.

I keep up with the Kelly Blue Book value of my truck. The value has actually gone up since the 2008 fuel spike, and has been holding pretty steady. I did a quick comparison to the values for the truck if it had a hemi. The difference in the KBB trade in value is $5175 in favor of the diesel, private party value difference is $6900. That's not too far from the actual discounted cost of the diesel option on my truck. Yes, you may or may not be able to get KBB value for your vehicle, but it is one of the better measures out there.

Every study on the economics of gas vs. diesel favors gas. Also, newer diesel trucks are less likely to be as maintenance free and will not work as well in light duty situations. Lots of good points have been brought up in this thread.

Tonk,

For being the investment expert you are, you should be able to do math.

Heres some REAL actual numbers for you, though I doubt you want to hear them,

100,000 miles of driving divided by 9 mpg= 11,111 gallons of gas. Figure that gas at $2.60 per gallon you get $28,888.88.

100,000 miles of driving divided by 12 mpg= 8,333 gallons of diesel. Figure the diesel at $2.85 per gallon (i'm actually giving you a nickel, the difference here is about 18-20 cents per gal) you get $23,749.99

Thats $5,138.89 in savings on fuel by driving the diesel, and thats ONLY over the first 100,000 miles which for me and most around here takes 4 yrs or less to get 100,000 miles.

Double that for another 100,000 miles and you get $10,277.78.

20 yrs huh? Maybe if you only drive 8,000-10,000 miles a year.

Not to mention at 200,000 miles the gas engine will be on its last leg (if it hasn't died already) and the diesel will still be chugging along.


Bill

Where to start???

Back in Spring and Summer 2008, before the drastic drop in oil prices began in late July , I made six cross country trips. The highest I saw diesel was $4.79 in Springfield, MA. Gas was right at $4.29. This is a 12% differential, not the 66% differential claimed by Tonk ($4.80 vs $2.90). I never observed a difference larger than that $0.50 when other factors were equalized like comparing gas station to gas station and the the highest and lowest priced places in a certain area.

So, even at this time I would get at least 33% better mileage towing (12mpg-diesel versus 9 mpg for a gasser) for a 12% differential in price. Actually for my diesel Cummins truck towing loaded I get 14mpg which is a 56% differential in MPG over a gasser.

Now in the Albuquerque area (I'm 100 miles north of Albuquerque, NM) diesel is $2.74. Best gas prices I have seen are $2.59. This is a 6% differential. Since 2008 gas prices (in my area) have hovered at around $0.05 - $0.15 less than diesel, although for several months I actually observed diesel to be lower than gas. This was early last summer 2009.

Tx270, thank you for putting pencil to paper and doing the math. [Apparently so many of our investment whizzes failed to do this which is evident in the current economic recession.] You illustrate quite conclusively that the initial cost of a NEW diesel pickup will be amortized somewhere within its early lifecycle, say before it's reached 50% in its lifecycle or right around the time a gasser is on its last legs.

NEW, nice concept, but I seldom buy vehicles NEW. I prefer to let someone else pay for that first year depreciation. And, in the last several years, I have noticed many fairly new diesel pickups selling for little more than comparable gassers. This is a recent phenomena brought on by the 2008 oil price hikes. Therefore, that oft-quoted price difference (in his thread) between diesel and gas when puchasing NEW, just doesn't apply to me and I suspect many others recently.

As to the statement that one must run a diesel 10 hours a day, 6 days a week hauling heavy to just break even, think you can actually do the math on that one and prove it????

Personally, I don't go around bragging about money I make on initial investments in the $7,000 threshhold. Even if I double or triple my money. Seems kind of chump-change to me.

I posted on here back in early 2009 that the dealership where I purchased my truck tried to purchase my truck back. I paid bottom dollar for a year old 2007 Dodge 2500 5.9 CTD. My credit union even called the dealer to make certain that my truck was a diesel. They told me that I got the truck 10k under blue book. This was at the the time when diesel was the highest. The dealers couldn't hardly give away heavy duty trucks during this time.

One year later, you couldn't find a diesel other than a 6.0 Ford on a lot in VA. My father spent four months looking. Shelor in Christiansburg, VA purchased two 2005 2500 Silverado Duramax diesels from a contractor and each truck had just over 100k miles. Both trucks were in rough shape but both sold for in one day. I would definitely say that the value of used diesel pickups has increased in the past year.

I'm driving an old 1994 Dodge regular cab long box 4x4 with the 12 valve diesel engine in it right now. I sold my 2007 Tundra and just started driving the dodge more.

The Tundra got 15mpg on the hwy, my dodge gets over 20mpg every tank, sometimes as high as 24mpg and this is all hand calculated. I'm saving quite a bit just on fuel costs.

Take into account that my Dodge is paid for and I am not spending money every month by paying interest on a loan and it makes my Dodge that much nicer . I'm weird, I actually pay myself my monthly budgeted allowance that I set years ago and put that into a retirement account. I'd say that, for me, a diesel is well worth the money.

The maintenance cost is obviously a little higher on a diesel but I do all of the preventative maintenance myself and run Amsoil from front to back.

So the difference between my Tundra and my Dodge boils down to this, the Tundra was faster and more comfortable to sit in. Thats it! The Dodge pulls more, is more economical, is all mechanical which is a big deal for me and it has not ever left me stranded! My Tundra left me walking a couple times. Its crazy, it you would have told me before I bought my Tundra that in 3 years I would have more confidence in my old beater than I did my Tundra I would have laughed in your face.

I bought my gasser in '08. At that point I had been in Asia for 5 years and had my heart set on a 3/4 diesel. I pull a camper trailer, but most of the time the truck is merely transportation. The price of all trucks were down at that time, but what I found is that the diesel price premium remained. I didn't mind that. I then worked the numbers on the trucks for fuel savings. Diesel was about $1.20 a gallon more than gas at that time. I didn't figure that kind of difference would last, but even prior to that price spike diesel was higher than gas. The determination I made on the numbers was that I wouldn't make up the price difference of the truck in a reasonable amount of time. If I were a higher mileage driver, I think the outcome might have been different. If I towed more, I'm sure the outcome would have been different. As it turns out even after the price of fuel has come down I made the right decision. I'm light on the gas pedal of my gasser. I get 14-15 in town and 17-18 on the highway. When I tow my trailer, I get 9-9.5. I'm hoping in another 10 years or so I will be towing more and I will own a diesel. But right now, the gasser is the right truck for me.

Expat