Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Reasons 4 a levergunner

Nice

my 308 is by a bit

No, WW2 was not fought with 94's, but the Wars of the West were most certainly fought with Henry, and Winchester repeaters. What I mean when I say I'm not sure I can justify an AR is that for decades now, leverguns have proven to me their ability to assume an effective dual role of protection and harvest; that is, good again man and beast.
I guess my question was one of whether or not the AR could/would do the same things. What has me scratching my head over all this that I have read is whether or not the 22 cal is effective against larger, more determined enemies with fangs and claws. Sure, everyone knows someone who used 22 cals to get himself a deer, in my own case with a 22-250, but as a general rule, deer do not invade your campsite and try to turn you into lunch.
So far what I have heard has convinced me they are useful against two legged targets, thus worth the effort to acquire one, but as many here no doubt already know, some wounded critters are more dangerous than before they are hit.
It seems that the 22 cal is more of a specific cartridge-a anti personnel one/ varmint, and it just has too limited of an application for much more.
Thoughts, experiences?

Once again bullet choice.

But depends on what you mean by fangs and such.... Lets say up to bears, 223 is just fine. Move to bears and larger, then I would not be moving up to just the 308 either.... it would jump to 338 plus...

as mentioned you could buy 50 beowulf, 458 socom, 450 bushmaster if it bothered you. I don't hesitate to use my 50 beowulf, and wouldn't hesitate to use it on bear etc....

If you started with a 223... you'd have the reciever already and just have to buy other uppers.... 22lr to 50 bmg....crossbow too from what I hear.... have not seen that one yet but would like to. I'd suspect shotguns(didn't someone mention 410 already) at least single shot shotgun uppers and MZ probably by now??? The list can go on and on....

If you want people to die when you shoot them, get something 30-caliber. AK, M1A, CETME, FAL, Saiga...

The nice thing about an AR, in SHTF, is that there'll likely be plenty of parts available. That being said, I'd want a much more reliable weapon that I wouldn't expect to need parts for(AK, namely).

Just One....

Interesting that since the late 60s all those folks shot with the 5.56 really didn't die? It really doesn't protect our troops?

I used to shoot with a lot of Spec Op troops... it took them a long time to get off the M14 bandwagon but they finally did and to a one, said that if the M16 wasn't doing its job in anyway, it was not a platform fault but an operator fault.

Of course mine and yours are only opinions but I"ll give you this.... with an AK you have 2 chances, hit em with the bullet or the case, either would kill em. I have a NM Poly Tech and shot it at a match at 200 yards once... lets just say I've no use for anything that will barely hold 12 inch aiming black at that distance.

I've got M1A, AK though non of the others, I'd grab the AR every last time, and if I needed more it would be via bolt gun at that point.

Mak, IMHO, if you are wanting this stricktly for rural defensive purposes - in normal situations, then your various leverguns will serve you just fine and there's not much to be gained by getting an AR.

If however, you are wanting to hedge against all possibilities - like a really bad economic colapse that could send groups of opportunistic and desperate miscreants in your direction, then you will certainly be very well served by owning an AR, along with a couple cases of ammo and about 7 mags with a basic carry system for them.

There's nothing like a high capacity autoloader with removable mags to fend off a larger number of attackers. And you don't need maximum penetration for that task, again IMHO.

I will say that for this use, a good AK with the same go-withs will cost you less and serve you just as well unless you live on the prairie and need accuracy at longer distances.

I asked a Ranger I was shooting with at Gunsite what he thought of 5.56. His issue weapon had an 8" barrel. He said "It makes peoples faces explode."

I have complete faith in the M4/AR15 weapons system.

Osok,
I do believe you have hit the proverbial nail on the head!
These days, it almost seems like a certain thing that civil unrest is on its way. It is best to as prepared as possible.

First pic is Iraq. I'm not sure on the 2nd pic but it was reported to be Afghanistan when it was posted.

Look close.....they're both the same weapon in two different stock options.

The one thing to remember is if you are using the weapon at home for self defense is you don't have to hump ammo around all day everyday like the military does which was one of the design considerations when they went from the M14 to the M16.

You shoot anyone with either caliber (especially multiple times) and they will die - no doubt about that.

The lever gun did win the west....against other lever guns and bows and arrows. Just something to think about. I always like to think in the worst possible scenario that the person you are up against might be as good or better equipped than you are and might just be as good or a better shot. Don't always think it will be a thug holding a glock sideways and sighting down the side of the gun.

Bottom pic of lever assault rifle.

What you are showing is the SDM. Thats about the only one that carries the M14 these days and he has a special job. Just about like a sniper but not quite. He is the long range protection of the squad. I really wouldn't want to try to do that with an AR either. He has to take on more than simple infantry and at ranges exceeding 600M would be nice. The AR fails on that count.. But I can say that no one would want me shooting irons on an AR at 600 at them. They wouldn't last long. At all. And out to 600 unless its harder targets, we are back to use enough, but no reason to use too much.

I know the difference you talk about civi vs military, last thing I want by my bed is an M14 or anything size of or larger than a 308....