Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions Speer Hot Core for 30-30 Win?

I just worked up a new handload that consits of a 170gr Speer Hot Core over 34gr of IMR 4895, Remington brass and CCI 200 primer. My old Lyman manual predicts just over 2200fps from a 21" barrel. From my 20" 336CS I should reach about 2200. From what I have seen this is on par with or slightly above factory Remington ballistics. Has anyone handloaded this bullet with any degree of success? And how does it perform on game?

I used Speer bullets when I started loading way back when. I had Speer data, and they were common in my area. I also used W748 as my only rifle powder for quite a while.(it worked in the 3 calibers I was loading) For .30/30, W748 is still hard to beat for decent accuracy and top speed. Speer .30/30 bullets are among the best there is. They have good streamlined profiles and are usually very accurate IF your rifle likes them. That's always the mystery of individual guns. There are few if any bullets currently made for the .30/30 cartridge that have serious issues when it comes to terminal performance. With 170's you simply run out of velocity long before it has a chance to over stress the bullet on anything short of heavy bone at very close range. (bigger than deer) Rumor has it that Hornady, Speer, and Sierra bullets tend to be a bit more accurate than the Winchester or Remington bullets,(sounds logical from a volume vs quality standpoint) but they likely don't kill deer any better. Most deer or anything else killed with a .30/30 are taken with factory loaded cartridges from Winchester, Remington, or Federal. If your handload shoots better groups than 170 grain factory loads then I'd say you are right on track, even if you don't quite hit that "magical" 2200 FPS out of your carbine. Few factory loaded 170 grain cartridges will get that kind speed out of 20" production rifles either. Try your loads over a chronograph sometime. Only then will you know for sure. If you have a "need for speed" take a very close look at the aforementioned W748 powder. It normally gives absolute top speeds with good to excellent hunting accuracy. I've tried H335 in place of W748. H335 is also good, but it burns a bit faster and tends to max out earlier which can limit veloctiy a bit.If it's simply target accuracy you crave, look at IMR3031, H322, and of course your IMR4895 that you are currently trying.AW

34 grains of IMR 4895 under a 170 grain bullet seems a bit hot to me. Reloader 15 gives top velocities also.

I phoned Speer about the 170g bullet they said it was ment for and impact velocity of 2400fps down to 1600fps. That means it is good out to a Maximum of 175-200 yards form your rifle. If you keep within that limit you will probaly do fine with this bullet. I have shot some into wet clay at 100 yards from the 30-30 and found they penetrate very well and expand enough to do fair damage. I have some loded up for my 30-30 that my friend will be using for black bear this spring. We will see how well they do on game.

I haven't used the speer 170 but I have used the 150 quite abit. It preforms quite well on game, and is very accurate in my rifles.

Rickt300,
The handloading information I used is from an old Lyman reloading handbook that calls 34.5gr IMR 4895 the top load.Yes it is on the hot side but not a +p load. By the way I have since proven out this load, accuracy is superior to any factory ammo that I have tried and there were no signs of excessive pressure. What stumped me was that this handload shot 5'' higher than both the 170gr Remington Core Lokt's and 170gr Nosler Partitions at 100yds (both factory loads).

In addition:

Don't forget the 170-gr. Grand Slams.

I am new to the list (and reloading) but am interested to see how your loading works out. I just tested 100, 150, and 170gr Speer bullets over IMR 4895 in a Marlin 336C with mixed results. The 100's were all over the place, the 150's were somewhat better, and the 170's were too good to be believed in terms of group size. So I am pretty much set on the 170's for this particular gun. However, I was expecting that 3" over at 100 yds would get me 3" under at 200 yds. Not even close. 3" over at 100 yds got me 18" or so under at 200 yds. This occurs with the Speer reloading manual #13 maximum loading of 29gr of IMR 4895. Anyone else getting something closer to 3" over at 100 and 3" under at 200, and if so, what charge are you using (preferably in IMR 4895, since that is what I have in stock)? Just for reference, IMR's loading manual shows a maximum load of 31.5gr of 4895, but that is for a Hornady 170gr bullet, not a Speer 170gr. Does the bullet manufacturer matter in this case?

I have found the max loading of 31.5grns of IMR4895 and a 170grn bullet to be very accurate in my 30/30. Also the Ken Waters load of 32.0 grns AA2460 with a 170grn bullet. My rifle likes 37.0grns W748 for a fast accurate load with 150grn bullets and 30.0grns RL-7 for 125-130grn bullets. I have used 100 and 110grn sp's for plinking loads but quite a few of the faster powders will work for that.

Bill

kasTX �
If you�re getting 3� at 100 yards and 18� at 200 yards, I have to ask if you�re using a scope or iron sights?

If you�re using iron sights, the chances are very good that your target or sights are inappropriate. Using �standard� 100 yard targets and moving them out to 200 yards is a good way to ensure big groups. The NRA 200-yard High-Power target has a 12� diameter black spot for a reason. When I try to use �Standard� targets at 200 yards with iron sights I get results like you do. When using the NRA 200-yard targets I�ve managed to get groups under 3� several times. Good sights help as well � my Marlins sport Williams FireSight front beads which help immensely. You can�t hit what you can�t see...

Coyote Hunter,

That is a good thought, I should have specified. I am using a Leupold 2.5x scout scope on the XS lever scout base. I also have the XS ghost ring setup, but have been using the scope for the tests.

I repeated the above test this weekend, but added some 130gr handloads as well. As before, 100gr was all over the place, 130gr was better, 150gr was usable, 170gr was great. This time though, I had two 170gr loads - one with 30gr of IMR4895, and the other with 31.5gr of the same powder. The 30gr load was a few inches higher at 100 than the previously tested 29gr load, but still a foot or so low at 200. The 31.5gr load was about a 8 inches high at 100, and 8 inches or so low at 200. Group size suffered a little bit with the 30 and 31.5gr loads compared to the 29gr, but this small amount could be due to other factors.

All this tells me that the gun definitely favors the heavier bullets at lower speeds. To get more insight I ordered a chronograph and I should be able to get some numbers in the next couple of weeks. I would also like to set up a target at 150 yds to get a better idea of the trajectory. I get the feeling these bullets go to about 150 yds and pretty much throw out the anchor.

One last note: the 31.5gr load came out of the IMR handbook, and is as high as I will likely go. One of the cartridges was a little sticky on extraction. I figure that if I need more power, I'll just have to get another rifle. Darn!

Coyote Hunter--

If you read his earlier post carefully, he was talking about drop at 200 yards, not group size.

MD

This is a pretty good bullet. I load them but I haven't taken game with them other than varmints. My friend once finished a broken legged heifer once and it shot through shoulder bone and broke it and made it to the far side. That is as good as a Partition in my book. They tend to be pretty accurate.

I load mostly Remington 170gr Core Lokts as they are less expensive though were I to take my m94 hunting for critters bigger than deer, I would use the Speer bullet.

I load both IMR 4320 and H4895, which ever I have on hand. Both powders are superb in the 30-30.

My main load is 27grs H4895 or IMR 4320 under a 170gr Core Lokt for around 1850fps. Brass lasts forever or nearly so and they shoot plenty flat to 200 yards. I can't tell any difference between this load and max loads in trajectory.

Still, this said, a 150gr Factory Silver Tip (old ammo of which I have a substancial supply, flattens deer faster than any other bullet I've tried or seen shot.

CM

Where did I put those glasses??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

748 is mainly what I've used in the .30-30 and it has done very well regarding velocity and accuracy. I don't have a preference as to bullets. Those who use it much more than I have don't seem to have bullet complaints, either. The .30-30 just works, it seems.

speer 170-grainer + 36.5 grains of ww 748 = stud load. it's an old lyman load, i believe, NOT +p, i got from sam fadala's book on the model 94. mucho handloading data in that book. a must read for .30-30 fans.

I just started reloading for my 30/30 Marlin 336. So far I�m finding 31.5gr of W748 is working well for 170 Sierra FP�s and 29.5 of IMR3035 gives pretty tight groups of 150 Sierra FP�s. I�m moving those loads up a little next time at the range. But the max loads list that came with the Lee dies run like this....

150...... Win748- 34.5, IMR3031- 31.1, H4895- 34.0

170......Win748- 32.0, IMR3031- 29.7, H4895- 30.5

I�m gonna have to get more (reloading) manuals. All the postings in all the forums I read, list good loads at up to 3.0 grains higher.

If I can get good groups up to 150yds (with iron sights) at a decent velosity, I'll be happy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ok, the results are in for the 150's. The 3031 groups good at midrange loads, but I�ll have to go with W748 that groups just as well but at top end loads.
Besides, I can�t get that d^^n �extruded� IMR3031 to meter consistently.

While Speer's Hot Core bullets are still good stuff, their best 30-30 bullet is the 150-gr. / 170-gr. Grand Slam, which is more aerodynamic than any comparable bullet on the market.

Federal loads 30-30 Grand Slams that provide 1,115 ft. lbs of energy at 200 yards, which is the highest I've seen to date.

Speer does not make a 170g Grand Slam, nor does it recommend .308� Grand Slams of any weight (150, 165, 180 and 200g) be used in tubular magazines. Instead they make Hot-Cors for the .30-30 in 130, 150 and 170g weights. These have a wider Flat point than either the .308� Mag-Tips or Grand Slams.