Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Mauser guys I need you again

I would like to know who the idiot is that rates the Zastava action lower in quality? Good grief, the workmanship polishing and bluing is top drawer. Zavodi Crvena Zastava is just about the oldest foundry in the world.....They made millions of first rate Mauser Actions......Millions! To say their actions are low quality is ludicrous. Regards, Rick.

And to think I passed up a brand new FN commercial action just the other day!!!! I know, I'm a moron!

This has been a VERY good and informative thread! Thanks to all for their contributions! Excellent read even to one addicted to the 98 action as myself....

I've noticed that Classic arms currently has a lot of VZ24's available in, they say, very nice condition, if one is interested in an action....

http://www.classicarms.us/firearms.htm

Just scroll down thru the Schmidt-Rubins & etc. to find them.

Kaywoodie

I have been buying and using 1908 Brazilian mausers this last year I have found them as complete rifles for $100.00 a pop from a well known distributor. So far they have all been DWM's and all have been very clean with no pitting.

Hi, Rick,

RE: the quality of the Zastava. Sorry if my conclusions about the quality upset you.

They are based on several sources, such as statements in Frank de Haas' book such as, "My first Mark X action was poorly polished. The floorplate was not level and smooth - it has several flat spots which can be felt and seen, as if extra polishing was done to remove deep tool marks from these places. The floorplate and the guard were polished separately instead of together, leaving the edges of the hinge joint rounded. The bolt-stop and the bolt-stop spring were also polished separately on a soft polishing wheel and their rounded edges certainly look out of place on a "custom" action. ...the sight-mounting screw holes are dished and the edges of the left receiver wall are rounded. ....the polishing was inexpertly done."

There is also an uncredited article from "African Sporting Gazette" titled, "Reigning Supreme - FN�s great action in increasing demand," which stated, "Between the millions of military actions and the tiny precious supply of commercial Oberndorfs lies a somewhat neglected area: commercial actions made elsewhere. Some were pretty questionable, such as certain periods from the Zastava plant in Yugoslavia, which produced the Mark X. Some of these were so roughly made as to be unsalvageable for a fine custom rifle, and many gunmakers flatly refuse to work on them.

Other commercial actions, however, were every bit as good as the German Oberndorfs, DWMs, and Sauers. These include actions made at the Czech Brno plant, and those made at Fabrique Nationale d�Armes de Guerre � FN � in Li�ge, Belgium."

Then there's an article by Don Heath, editor of "African Hunter", titled "Professional Hunter Proficiency Exam", which describes experiences with various heavy rifles in the yearly Zimbabwe Rifa Professional Hunter and Guides training/refresher course, and the actual proficiency exam itself. Here's what he says about the Interarms Mk X: "Apart from the fact that the barrels are soft and wear out very quickly, these are intrinsically sound rifles that are simply shoddily put together. They are famed for springing the magazine floor plate open and dumping the contents on the firer�s feet. Never seen one that wouldn�t feed reliably though, and with a little bit of gun smithing to make the safety catch more positive so that it doesn�t get accidentally swept on as the bolt is opened (or accidentally knocked off in the bush) and the stock properly bedded to cure the �magazine dump�� they can be made into very workable rifles. They are though, very definitely rifles that you take first to your gunsmith and only then into the bush as the two students at Rifa discovered."

In contrast here is what he said about original Mauser and FN rifles: "The remainder of the field was made up of Mauser actioned rifles. The original Mauser in .404 and the FN in .458 worked great, as expected. The trouble for a learner Hunter or Guide is that these makes are hard to come by. Original Mausers are beginning to wear out, and apart from .404 and 9.3x62, most are chambered for rounds unsuitable for serious hunting [note: this is in the context of a dangerous game rifle]. As soon as you see a Mauser chambered in .458 or .375 you know that it is a conversion (see my comments on custom rifles below). FNs are seldom seen on the second hand market. They represent the peak in the Mauser rifle�s development, and those lucky enough to own one seldom find a reason good enough to sell it."

So, while you have had good experiences with the Zastava, it appears that has not always been the case.

I am a Mauser guy as well and find this thread a mine of imformation. Have built on both ex mil FN Colombian and 1908 DWM and they are both superb actions. Even the bottom metal cleaned up nice with a little re-contouring and a button release built into the floor plate.

Von Gruff.

I am a Mauser nut (you can tell from my screen name...) but I think building a precision shooter on Mauser basis may not be cost effective any more. One thing not mentioned by previous posts is long lock time and high inertia of the firing pin. The other issue is the availability of quality trigger. I mean, a trigger comparable to jewel or Savage Shooter's Supply delightful 10oz trigger. But depending on what you want the gun for, it may or may not be a problem. The bottom line is, with all monies spent on accuryzing, new trigger, firing pin asembly, making cycling smoother etc. etc. you may be better off buying modern commercial action or whole rifle. Small example: A friend of mine decided to have a build of 6.5x55mm long range rig on FN basis (he already had the action). After all blueprinting surgery and rebluing, with Lilja barrel and very nice wood, it costed him over $1200. About the same time his gun was done, I bought all factory Tikka off GB in the same caliber, just under $600. Quite honestly, Tikka still has the smoothest action and both guns shoot with exact same accuracy.

There is no question that there are actions that are more cost effective, and have individual points of superiority compared to the Mauser.

However, consider that the Mauser was designed to be the safest, strongest, most reliable action, given the technology 100+ years ago - in other words, the BEST. Not that cost was not a consideration, it always is - but not the primary one.

Most modern actions, are still modeled on the Mauser prototype of dual opposed forward locking lugs, but designed to be CHEAPER TO BUILD. For specialized purposes such as benchrest, other actions have long ago supplanted the Mauser, but it is remarkable that for the highest grade sporting rifles, the most expensive custom actions are the Granite Mountain, Satterlee, etc. - basically blue-printed Mausers.

Jlin222, your 1st 7 posts have been an informative and entertianing read. I personally still don't consider a CZ 550 a mauser though There isn't a single part on either one that's interchangable without a lathe or mill. The features you mentioned can be found on many actions that don't qualify either.

One thing I would like to add to what you said about the Zastavia actions. While I agree whole hartedly with your commnets on quality. The actions do clean up very nicely and are decent actions for custom builds. If I was left handed and wanted a custom Mauser I would buy one without hesitation. I'm using one of thier "mini" actions for a pretty cool custom .223 that'll probably be the nicest rifle I'll ever own.

Terry

Terry,

Having lurked here for a while I have great respect for you and many of the other posters. I looked over a CZ but I've never tried interchanging parts, so I take your point. I've only got two Mausers of my own, an FN and a Brno 21H ( which I got in part because of some of your posts) and I like them both a lot. I think it's an interesting discussion anyway.

I'm not trying to knock the Zastava - de Haas, who certainly has a lot more real experience than me, did say he thought they were basically sound, and it sounds like they have had good periods and not so good ones.

I've seen the progress reports on your mini-action and am looking forward to your posting when it is completed - looks like it will be a real beauty! I've got an early .222 Sako L46 that is quite nice, but surely not as nice as yours will be.

Terry, I quite agree on the above quote. That said, however, I do consider the CZ action a Mauser DERIVATIVE the same as I consider the M-70 (I believe one would normally think of the M-70 as an imporved M-54), 1903 Sprg, and the Husqvarna. Even tho' parts don't interchange for the most part... One can definitely see the influence on the design. If I'm not mistaken, the US govermment paid royalities to Mauser for the design of the 1903. Likely by the time the Husky action came along, the patents had expired.

Edw

De Haas was spot on, I just wanted to say they can be cleaned up. If there is a Zastavia and F.N. action on the table, I'm going to pick up the F.N. everytime.

Terry

Your criteria of smooth bolt, gas handling ability and strength have commerecial FN 98 written all over them. You can find them for $400, but you may have to break down an existing rifle to get one. I�d drop the 93�s, 96�s and Santa Barbaras.

Under most circumstances, I wouldn�t bother with a military 98, since you�ll spend 2-3x the cost of a commercial action to make it anywhere as nice. The exception is when you�re building a new rifle in the chambering for which that action was originally chambered. Mauser magazine boxes and feed lips are set up for a specific cartridge, and may not feed smoothly with something else. Getting them adjusted properly can be extremely expensive, so if you decide to build a 7x57, it might be worth starting with a military 98 that was built in 7x57. This also makes a good case for building a custom 30/06 on a commercial that was originally a 30/06.

The H&H cartridges can be a problem in a standard 98, since the magazine box has to be lengthened for them to fit. That also means shortening the feed ramp, which some people feel reduces the action�s strength. It�s probably best to go with a true magnumn-length action for them. That said, various factories have built 375�s on standard 98 actions over the years, so this is probably more of an issue in a conversion done by someone who may not have known what he was doing.

A Kuhnhausen Mauser Shop Manual will have enough details to keep your head spinning for months as you plan this project. Brownell�s probably has them.


Okie John

Jlin222 is smack-on regarding the Zastava Mark X; it's crude in comparison to FN or many of the other of the best Mausers (1909 Argentine, Oberndorf, the better VZ-24s, and others). As Mule Deer noted above, the Mark Xs can be cleaned up, but they were not manufactured to the same standards as these others.

Many/maybe most of the 1909 Argentines were a bit soft, are often treated to hardening in a custom project. The '09 floorplate is indeed a fine piece of work, suitable with minor gunsmithing for the finest in a custom rifle (I'd argue better than the replacement stuff in that the floorplate does not cover the inletting which allows a top drawer stocker to further showcase precise inletting).