Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Which .375 H&H to buy?

I want to buy a .375 for dangerous African game. Since it's for BIG targets at relatively short range, I don't need extreme accuracy. I do want CRF, and a "nice" rifle (not a Mossberg or Savage) but don't want to go to a full custom job, although I'd consider a "customized" piece. I'd be willing to pay up to around $1,500 if necessary, and maybe more. Recommendations please.

In my opinion, this is the way to go:<P>This is the link to the ruger website w/ the rifle:<BR><A HREF="http://www.ruger-firearms.com/rfdeluxe.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.ruger-firearms.com/rfdeluxe.html</A><P>This is where i buy many of my guns. I have received good experience w/ them, and they have great prices. Maybe thats just because there isnt many good gun stores in my area.<P><A HREF="http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=769726&item=77RSM%2D375" TARGET=_blank>http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=769726&item=77RSM%2D375</A><P>Good Luck<P>Chris

Doc: For 1500 bucks you should be able to pick up a used win-70 for the action. Add a match grade barrel and a nice synthetic stock ..... Talk to E4E or John Ricks frtom the board here and I bet you would be pleased and surprised at what they can do for 1500 bucks.<P>Good Luck Always<P>Tex<P>------------------<BR>Deja Moo - The feeling I've heard this B.S. before?<P>Apologies to Pete Millan for stealing his signature.

Weatherby Mark V Synthetic, .375 H&H, 24" #3 contour barrel, about 8 lbs.<P>$829 list, I can get one from my dealer for $680. Worth considering. Not pretty but functional.<P><A HREF="http://www.weatherby.com/rifles/mag_synthetic.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.weatherby.com/rifles/mag_synthetic.shtml</A><p>[This message has been edited by jackfish (edited March 27, 2001).]

The Winchester M70 is arguably the perfect .375 H&H, you can get a stainless steel M70 for around 625 or the safari classic (blued/wood) for around 850, great rifles.

Doc, <P>When and where are you going in Africa? <P>I can only relate what I did for my 375 H&H Ackley Improved. I bought a used Rem 700 LA (complete rifle) for $250 at a local gun store. The rifle itself was rusty and the stock was cracked (my kind of rifle). I sent the barreled action and a McMillan GP stock I already had to Dan Dowling (the smith). He bought a Schneider # 5 1/2 contour barrel, I sent him the rings and bases (30mm rings). Dan trued up the action, bolt face and basically anything else that needed to be done, chambered the barrel, attached it to the action, bedded the stock and did all the fitting, adjusted the trigger to 2 1/2lbs. I had a muzzle brake attached as well. Attached the bases and rings, lapped the rings. I put a Schmidt & Bender 1.5 to 6 X 42 Scope on it. All together (excluding the scope) I have $1150 in the rifle, that includes the $250 I paid for the old rifle I bought for the action. If your looking at a $1500 limit you sure can go 100% custom versus factory and have exactly what you want for your purpose. <P>Good luck in Africa, Don

Thanks guys. Here is what I'm going to do. At the SCI show next March, I'm going to check out the Winchester, the Ruger, and the<BR>CZ. I will restrict myself to synthetic stocked versions in .375. After I select the one I like best, and this will be a subjective determination, I will turn it over to a competent gunsmith for stockwork, muzzle break, trigger, action, and magazine catch work. <P>I intend to scope it with a Swarovski 1.5-6x PH with qd mounts, and some sort of "red<BR>dot" sight that is adaptable to qd mounts. This way, I can use the rifle on heavy plains<BR>game with the scope, and the red dot for the buff. After the safari, this rifle will become my all around heavy game rifle for North America (elk, brown bear, etc) as well as the rifle I will take back to Africa if I can ever afford it again. <P>I also intend to take my Ruger #1 .270 which I will re-scope with another Swarovski 1.5-6x, but this one with an illuminated version for long range shooting at dusk. I figure this will be my all around light to medium game hunting rifle. The current Leopold 1-4x VariX-II will go to my stepson for his new rifle. Since this will be his only rifle, I'm leaning to a .300 WSM or the old stand-by .30-06. Another option would be a .375, although this seems a bit much for an all-around rifle, particularly given the price of ammo. I'll probably be back asking advice about a gun for him later. <P>Anyway, thanks everyone. All your advice has been really helpful. <BR>

Doc,<P>I REALLY think you should just buy the action you like (even if it is a CRF), and then put a SS Pac Nor barrel ($220) a MacMillan stock ($250-$400), and have John Ricks (srarolypen.com) build it for you. He'll true the action, fit and chamber the barrel, and pillar bed the stock for around $400 or so. <P>If you have MacMillan build you a stock, you can choose from several different styles and have it built with the exact dimensions you like. You can get the exact length and contour barrel you want. John is a first rate rifle-builder. He has built a few rifles for me, and his work is excellent and his prices very reasonable.<P>He built me a 416 Rem on a 700 with a Pac Nor SS #6. I used a Hogue stock, but I will be installing a MacMillan stock when I move back to the states this summer. This rifle literally "snaps" into place with the game centered in the crosshairs. It has the exact balance I like. It functions flawlessly and is very accurate, especially for a rifle that generates 50 ft lbs of recoil. The average group size of the load it likes is under .7, with the best group under .3. Further, it will maintain accuracy for 25 rounds without cleaning with Barnes X bullets. When it's time to clean it, it cleans very easily.<P>The bottom line of all this is I have a DG rifle I am extremely confident in, can operate without thinking about it, and is very accurate. This is a result of building one to fit me vs just getting a factory rifle and having a 'smith work on it a little. Factory barrels often shoot okay, but they usally foul a lot more than a premium barrel.<P>Also, PLEASE try your 375 H&H without a muzzle brake. The recoil of a 375 H&H is very tolerable, especially in a MacMillan stock that fits you properly. The average braked rifle generates around 160 decibles, and the best earplugs only reduce noise by 25-30 decibles. Permanent hearing damage can occur at 130 decibles. If you just can't stand the recoil without a brake, try magnaporting. Magnaporting reduces felt recoil by reducing muzzle rise, and doesn't seem to add much noise. Also, any 375 H&H should weight at least 9 to 9.5 lbs with the scope. If the balance is right, it will shoulder quickly. My 416 weighs 10.5 lbs w/scope. The MacMillan will drop the weight to just under 10 lbs.<P>If you lived closer to San Antonio (my upcoming assignment location), I'd let you shoot my magnaported 375 H&H and my 416 Rem just so you could get a feel for them. <P>Good luck with whatever you do!<P>Blaine

I have been enjoying my new winchester M70 375H&H synth/stainless. A real keeper - feels well balanced, bolt is smooth and extraction is positive. Guess there is good reason it enjoys such a high reputation. Paid 1200 and change for mine with express sights and Leupold 1.5-6 varix iii, sling, etc. at the local shop. Good luck, RJ

Doc,<BR>If I were you, I'd buy a good used pre 64 M-70 Winchester 375 for about that price and use it as is, and watch the price go up and up and up....it is still the best 375 on the market for $1500 t0 $1800.<P>------------------<BR>Ray Atkinson<BR>atkinsonhunting.com<BR>208-326-4120

I'm with Ray on this one. I have bought a couple of the Pre 64 Model 70 .375's for less than $1,000. Granted, they weren't pretty or cosmetically perfect, but a blue job only runs about $100 and mechanically, they are just about the best .375 that ever came out of a factory. Function, balance, utility, and accuracy are just about as good as a hunting rifle can be.<BR>If you can't find what you want in a Pre 64, a newer Pre 64 Style action cleans up nicely with a little smith work and will make as good a DGR as you might want. Won't have the nostalgia factor of the original Pre 64's, but it should function and shoot just fine. Either way, enjoy your trip- Sheister

If you go against all this good advice and consider the Ruger, make sure you consider how short the magazine box is on them. You will have almost no latitude in bullet seating depth, in my experience.<BR>art<P>------------------<BR>Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

Shiester,<P>Just so I got this straight. You recommend the pre'64, even though they weren't pretty, need rebluing, and need smith work. Even after doing all that, you still have an old rifle thay may have an action made of weak steel, a factory barrel, a walnut stock, and potentially ill fit--depending on Doc's size. <P>Wouldn't it be better to just get an action and have a rifle built exactly how Doc wants it? And if you do that to a pre'64, you destroy its collector value. Because of their inflated collector value, wouldn't it be better to keep the pre'64 unaltered and in the display cabinent, then build a working rifle to Doc's specs using a modern action made from strong steels?<P>Blaine

Blaine,<P> First off, your post is the first time I've ever heard of a question of "weak steels" in the Pre 64 Model 70's. If that were a problem, I would think that would have come up long ago. You must be referring to the early Mausers, which had a reputation of problems in their metallurgy during some of the war years. As far as the "smith work", that was in context to the newer Pre 64 style actions, which need a little "deburring and polishing", which cost almost nothing and will complement any hunting rifle, not just the Winchesters. Even your beloved Remingtons. As far as factory barrels, walnut stocks, and stock fit- well, not everybody and every situation calls for custom barrels, synthetic stocks, etc... and even a Pre 64 Model 70 stock can be cut and fit or restocked, believe it or not! My factory barrels shoot almost as well as all the custom barrels you have been playing with over the last couple of years, and I don't shovel out the kind of money you have to gain a tenth of an inch of accuracy for a hunting rifle. I am a little more practical (some say frugal) for that.<BR> Secondly, I can't afford the "collector" Pre 64, and wouldn't buy one anyway because I buy rifles to hunt with, so the Pre-64's with blue missing, or a little pitting that can be polished out and reblued are just fine with me as long as the function, bore, and proper factory markings are right and haven't been tampered with. If you aren't too picky, you can pick up shooters in these rifles fairly inexpensive and have a simple reblue put on and have a great rifle- minus the collector value. Even with the "collector value" gone, I still won't lose any money on a "shooter", so I feel just fine doing it my way and so does my pocket book. (I'm not a rich Air Force Pilot that can afford to have customs built every year) I can live with that for the quality of the rifles and the nostalgia factor I enjoy. The smooth-as-silk actions are a bonus, but also make these an excellent hunting rifle, especially for Dangerous game.<BR> Third, you can build all the custom rifles you want, and I have a few, but until you own and hunt with a couple of the Pre 64 Model 70's, you just won't understand. Besides, the Pre 64 actions are some of the most sought after for a basis for a custom rifle by many gunsmiths and gun owners, so I think your points are baseless. <BR>I own and hunt with Remingtons, Winchesters, and Mausers, so I don't have an axe to grind over any one of them. I use the Remington's for varmint hunting, deer hunting, and other accuracy work, but wouldn't be afraid to use the Winchesters I own for the same purposes, especially since I am not a benchrest competitor and never presented myself as one. I use mostly Winchesters when it comes to big game hunting, just because I prefer the safety location and function, and the way they point for me.<BR> Maybe when you retire, you will have a chance to hunt more and try one of these while cruising around in the woods. With a little experience, you might even come over to the "dark side". LOL- Sheister<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sheister (edited April 02, 2001).]

Just out of curiosity, how much better MOA groups can a custom barrel/stock get you at say, 200 yds? I've never owned a $$$ custom but they sure look nice in the ads...Love to find out from those of you who've owned the same rifle in factory and custom. RJ

Sheister,<P>I can't believe I "hooked you" on this one! Will you please send me a picture of you so I can put it with the pictures of my other trophies ;D?<P>You are right that early Mausers are made from heat-trated carbon steel, and have much less tensile strength than an action made form modern steels. Post WW-II steel alloys are much stronger than pre WW-II steel alloys, so it stands to reason that the pre-War pre-64s are not made from as strong of steels as the post War pre-64s. Notice I never said they weren't strong enough..........(I let you imply that, just like I'd swim a Wooly Bugger past a big trout--sorry).<P>Remember Hatcher's test on the 721 vs the military M-98, P-17 Enfield, and the "strong" Springfield? The 721 held loads that destroyed the other actions, mainly because it was a push-feed and it was made of 4140 chrome-moly steel vs the WW II era stuff. I ASSUME the early pre'64 would have been a stronger than these military actions, but I don't know that. <P>Actually, the points I made are well- founded, accurate, and far from baseless--you know me, and you know that is true. The points may not be that significant to you--just as it's not significant to me that lots of guys like pre-64s to build into pretty custom rifles. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.<P>Now I am kind of suprised you didn't take me to task for claiming how great 700s are, when you know I take a factory rifle, throw away the stock, barrel, and entirely re-work the action. Some would argue there is little left of the factory rifle........ Then again, my wife just rolls here eyes, because with almost EVERYTHING I buy, I take it home, take it apart, and make it better.<P>If USAF pilots are rich, then electrical contractors must be multi-millionaires ! I am in no way close to being able to afford a ranch in Eastern Oregon--like a certain contractor I know of. I will have to be several years removed from the USAF and well into my (hopefully) airline pilot career before I could afford to buy the land next to you and move in. Now I do own three vehicles. But the total value of all three of these vehicles is less than the value of that nice looking pick-up I saw you in last Sept. <P>If you had no life for nearly a three year period, you could probably build a couple extra semi-custom rifles as well. Since I have been in Japan, I've spent about $150 a month on rifles. It's easy to save money when your only "leisure" expenses are annual trips to the states and you don't even have to buy the airline tickets. <P>Also, when Atkinson is talking about $1500-$1800 pre '64s, how are my $1100-$1500 semi-custom rifles more expensive? How is it you are spending so much less than me when you'll put $1100 into a pre' 64, as well as build some custom rifles? <P>Bob, I think you are the same as me. You know what you want, are tired of wasting money on cheap stuff that doesn't work, so you save money, buy less, but get good stuff that fits what you like. I don't see that as a bad thing.<P>I'll not likely I'll ever hunt with a pre'64, so I guess I'll never understand. I have nothing against other folks using them, just no interest myself. (Yes, I do love saying that to spin up the pre'64 guys--sorry again.) I have already found the rifle that suits me. Of course, this is a bonus to you, because instead of buying the pre'64s I come across, I'll tell you about them so you can get them if you want. <P>(Imagine what it would be like if we ALL liked the same exact thing--that poor woman!)<P>You can have all the M-70s, except for my Uncle's pre War pre'64 M-70. I want that one for nostalgia. I'll carefully restore it, then put it up with my dad's 721. Those two rifles shooting days will be over.<P>The reason you like the pre'64s for hunting is exactly the same reason I like my M-700s with heavier barrels. Safety location, function, and "pointing" are very important and often overlooked factors when someone chooses a rifle. (No, I won't go into the habit pattern thing again.)<P>Oh yeah, I have never shot benchrest either, but my Rems are WAY better than "a tenth" more accurate than "normal stuff." They are AT LEAST .015 better...............<P>BTW, how do the barrels of these old M-70s you find clean? If they are like all other factory rifles, their early quality is much better than their late quality.<P>ANYWAY, all this stuff aside, I hope I didn't yank your chain too hard. There are many guys whom I could care less if I p--s off. You are most definitely NOT one of those guys.<P>Oh, send the "trophy" picture to my Japan address <P>Blaine

Blaine,<P> Well, besides the fact this is getting way off the subject, I guess I got a little carried away defending my choices. The most important factor is that I wasn't trying to defend them to YOU as much as trying to give Doc the information he asked for. <BR> The important factors are that no custom rifle I've ever seen will ever bring anywhere near what you put into it, where a Pre 64 will always bring what you have paid for it and usually more as time goes on. As far as off-the-shelf rifles, I've found many rifles that shoot as good as my few customs right out of the box with just a little bit of work- bedding, loading, and good optics usually wring out most factory rifles (within reason). I have found that the Pre 64 Model 70's are as smooth cycling as most rifles that have had a gunsmith smooth them over or someone who has cycled the action thousands of times. I personally like that kind of function and I also like the looks of the Pre 64's, even in their new incarnation. Accuracy is more than I need for hunting, so that is not an issue for me. <P> If you took all the rest of that stuff seriously, sorry, but I guess I reeled you in pretty well, too. No hard feelings? -Sheister

Sheister,<P>Well, I think if Doc ever looks back here, we (all the posters on this thread) have pretty well covered this topic.<P>I forgot to mention that I agree with you 100% with the value of our custom rifles--they just don't do so well, unless we find the right buyer. That's why I build them as tools and do not sell them.<P>I too have sen many factory rifles shoot as well as customs, but they usually don't clean as well, which is a factor when you shoot a lot.<P>There are NEVER any hard feelings between you and me!<P>BTW, I'm pretty sure you can have that 375 Ack barrel cut for a M-70 action. The 700 has one of the larger thread sizes.<P>Blaine