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I am looking at getting my first dog even though I have been around dogs my whole life. Which would make a better dog for hunting and as a family dog that will also play? Which is the tougher dog to train for hunting and obedience?

I see your post with no response. I will say what I know and then, hopefully, the more expert will help you.

I lived with my parents female labs for a long time. They were gentle and quiet dogs and good with small children. They would play and fetch and also walk with me in the woods. Never a problem with them but they are big.

I have hunted with a well trained shorthair and it was superb. If one has more white on it it would be easier to see which is good. I did observe a shorthair that was too 'active' for me in its home.

I have owned or have been owned by GSP's my entire life starting at age six. I can't imagine a better family dog. They will play all day and do require a good deal of exercise. They are intelligent ( almost too much so as mine learned to open the garage doors a few weeks ago ) and will invent games or other ways to get your attention and affection. They can be a little hard headed but I think that is the German in them.

All of ours have hit the ground running and turned into really good bird dogs with minimal interference from us. My current dog Jake is six and is really a pleasure to hunt with. He has a funny little power play on every retrieve of downed birds - he will stop about 15 feet from my hand and with the bird in mouth raise his leg and take a squirt while looking me in the eye.

I can only imagine what he is thinking.

Lab, No question.

I have had raised, trained, shown and competed with Labs for more than 20 years.

I now have a GSP and a Austrailian Cattle Dog and they are the best hunting dogs I have ever owned.

You want a Lab.............................................

I would say it depends on what kind of hunting you do. Labs are great family dogs (I am sure GSPs can be too). Do you want a pointing or flushing dog? Some labs will point but they are generally a flushing dog. Both breeds shed, though some will argue that labs shed worse than any.

Personally, I am a lab guy because they are a jack of all trades. GSPs are primairly an upland dog though I have seen a couple go into the water after ducks.

It will depend on what type of hunting you do. If strictly waterfowl, then a Lab is probably your best bet. If upland and waterfowl, but not a lot of either, then either breed. If you hunt a lot, especially upland, then GSP. There are two types of GSPs in the United States - field trial type and foot hunter type. Most of the bad rap that GSPs get are from people that have gotten a field trial type when they wanted a foot hunter type. The field trial type has been genetically selected over many generations to compete with English Pointers, some lines even have English Pointer crossbred into them. These dogs are full of energy to the point of being hyper, they run big, and sometimes have issues doing retrieves or water work. Foot hunting GSPs are true to the German type; the GSP comes from a French Pointer and a German Bloodhound originally. They are meant to be a versatile dog - they will point, retrieve (from land or water) and track wounded game (fur or feather, land or water). You will see that dual nature - in the field they actively and passionately hunt; at home they are low energy and will patiently lay around a lot. They are also awesome water dogs, and will track and retrieve feather or fur. Yes, I have GSPs and have bred them for over 20 years... If you want a foot hunting type, take a look at the breeders that are NAVHDA members (http://navhda.org/ ). There are also two types of Labs, traditional waterfowl type and more of a field type. The traditional type is heavier, with shorter legs and longer body, all adapted for cold water and swimming. None of these are assets in the uplands; such a dog tires quickly and ends up with joint and back problems. The field type is lighter, longer legged and shorter coupled (back). Not surprisingly they are also higher energy, so you can get into the same hyper problems...

Which will make a better family dog? Either breed can be a good, or bad, family dog. It comes down to the particular line and individual you pick; dogs have personalities, just like people. As a potential owner you'll need to do some good background research on potential breeders and ask them questions about hunting abilities and temperment. Get some references and call them, check test scores, etcetera.

Laker,

I was in the same boat about a year ago. I was trying to decide between a German Short Hair, lab and Boykin Spaniel. Of the three, I wanted the Boykin. Little smaller than the other two, great family dog, great hunter. I ended up with a mutt lab because the wife saw him in the paper and fell in love with it. I love the dog now, but I really wanted a Boykin. I'd at least take a look at them if I were you.

It's tween a Griff and another Lab for me at this time. The Spinone really catches my eye as well...

Dober

Now that there is funny!
They are a cool breed.

They type of hunting you are doing should make the decision, but for the record I think the GSP is a extremely versatile breed with a really wonderful demeanor.

I raised Labs for several years and they are tops for the water and geeese & ducks. Some also will point Upland but not anything like a Pointer or Britt in my opinion. If you like flower gardens, ForGetAbout the Lab, it will be in your flower beds a bunch, especially when you water the flowers.

We now raise German Shorthair Pointer's and have some of the best bred dogs in the country, for hunting Upland or Field Trials or NSTARA. I personally believe the German Shorthair Pointer is the more versatile of the two breeds. However, bloodlines are very important, make sure you purchase from an honest reputable breeder no matter what you settle on for a dog.

Even if you are only hunting Upland with your dog you might want a lab depending on what species you are hunting and the type of cover you hunt. If you hunt pheasants in thick cover a lab might be a better choice. If you are going to hunt a lot of chickens or quail than the GSP might be the dog for you.

For a serious upland bird hunter I'd say the short hair, for everything else I'd say a lab.

If you don't want to train with your dog very much a Lab will give you more enjoyment but if you'd like to get more involved with the training process, you'll really like hunting behind a GSP.

Both are great family dogs but, FWIW, I'd favor a GSP indoors or a Lab outdoors.

Now for some years those high dollar hunting perserves have been using the Labs for the purpose of retrieveing the birds, while the Pointers find them period. I have seen the Smith's operation down in Texas and it does cater to the hunter riding atop the vehicle until the birds are pointed. Then once shot the handler takes the Labs off the back of the truck for their work, to retrieve the birds.

I don't need a LAB when hunting pheasant in the thick stuff or whatever cover! My GSP's will get the job done and bring home the bacon too gents. We do have GSP's that retrieve as well and yes, they didn't have to be forced to do so.

When I first got into dog training I thought I could train any behavior into a dog, given enough time and patience. Heck, as a kid I'd trained guinea pigs to sit up and beg... After a couple years of dog training in the NAVHDA system (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association) I started noticing something. There were a lot of dogs that needed almost no training. The first NAVHDA test is the Natural Ability Test (NA) and tests the capability of the parents to pass on traits to their offspring. My big ah-ha moment came - on a well bred dog over 90% of their hunting ability is already bred in; you don't have to train it in. You'll still have to do some basic obedience work and teach them to hold point for as long as you want them to, but not much more. Pointing, backing (honoring another dog's point), retrieving, water work, tracking, and range are all genetic.

Okay, I hear ya - yes, a well bred dog is going to cost more, but not as much as you think. Your backyard bred dog is going to be around $300. A well bred dog will probably be from $500 to $800. So, a difference of $200 to $500. Spread that across 10 years, and I guarantee you're spending more than that on your morning coffee. The other thing is that the purchase price of a dog is the least expensive part of the deal. Food and vet bills over the dog's lifetime will greatly outweigh the initial cost.

Regarding the brush busting ability of Labs - yes they are great heavy cover busters for about half an hour to an hour, then they're done for the day. I hunt with a group of around 10 guys; about half have very capable Labs so I know what I'm talking about. Shorthairs don't bust brush, they snake their way through it, all day, every day. I had one that's locally famous. The guys nicknamed her the "Ditch Witch". She'd go into the irrigation ditches around here and not come out until called, or a gun went off and there was a bird to retrieve. We'd send the guys with the Labs to the end of the ditch to catch the runners while I'd work my dog on the cagey old roosters that would try to hunker down until we passed. All you could see was the tops of the grass and the tumbleweed shaking as she stealthly picked her way through. When the movement stopped you'd flip your safety off... I bred her to the top GSP in the country at the time, and kept two females. I was trying to decide which one to keep, and had them out pheasant hunting with momma in western Oregon one day. She pointed a rooster, we got it up and shot it, and it fell into a blackberry tangle about the size of a house. She would only go in about 10 feet then back out. I was standing there trying to figure out how to get to the bird when one of the puppies went in. The pup went in so far I was starting to worry that I'd have to go in and find both the bird and the pup... After a couple minutes I saw some movement and got down to look. It was the pup coming out backwards, and looking like it was getting stuck because it kept jerking. It came out a little bit more and I could see why it was jerking - it had the pheasant and was dragging it out! This was a 12 week old puppy and the pheasant was as big as she was! Needless to say, I kept her. I'd tested her litter in NAVHDA; out of 5 pups tested 4 were prize I, perfect scores and the 5th was a high prize II; the owner had done absolutely nothing to prepare for the test. After a couple years I bred the pup I'd kept to the top GSP at that time. Unfortunately we only got a single pup out of the breeding, and I'd already promised the dog to a friend. I was torn, because I knew it was the best GSP I'd ever had, even at 8 weeks. I hunt with the guy a lot, so I've been able to hunt over the dog and confirm my thoughts. The first time we took him out with the big dogs he was about 16 weeks old. We had 3 very experienced GSPs, 1 that was about a year old, and him. We put them into a cattail slough and a rooster got up. My friend made a snap shot and winged the rooster. We decided we'd keep hunting up to where the bird went down, then run the dogs in to find him. After about 5 minutes he asked if I knew where the pup was, as he'd lost track. We called and looked, but couldn't find him. I went a little further up the slough where I could get up on a bank and look down into it. Finally I spotted him up ahead - all I could see was the tip of his tail, the top of his head, and his nose sticking out of the water. He was pointing a bunch of cattails. I told my friend to get in there quick. He did and found the wounded bird. We figured out that the pup had air scented and ground scented the wounded bird and tracked it. It had been on point for at least 15 minutes by the time we got to the bird. The pup only got better with time... That's what you get with a well bred dog - generations of high performance and ability already there!

for a family dog my GSP is as lovey as any lab, damn near velcroed to my side around the house, loves all kids, he is not happy kenneled other than to sleep, he wants to lounge around the living room with us if we are home......

the guys above me have pretty well lined out why to pick one over the other.....my GSP loves the water and will retrieve from it but i wouldnt use him for alot of cold water duck and goose hunting but for the farm/stock pond duck shooting i do while hunting upland birds he is fine.....

I've stayed out of this because it was GSP vs. Lab. I've trained and owned them all and of the two, I like Labs. And, while I love all bird dogs, I stayed out of this because of both these breeds, I favor other dogs, so it wasn't my place to comment. But, your last post touched a nerve.

Well, where to begin. I will apologize ahead of time, because perhaps I'm in a bad mood and I've misinterpreted your post. So, here goes

I'll take a horseback pointer or setter over any NAVHDA dog. While it may not be possible, it sure seems these tests are more contrived than a horseback or grouse test. Choose the breed you want, its of no concern to me, but operate from a love of the breed and ability--not of tests and money.

As for back yard breeders, I would argue that there are more disreputable big name breeders at $500 a pup than the guys that do it for the betterment of the breed and nearly give their dogs away. Its the "name" breeders and fixed pedigrees that caused DNA testing to be forced into the mix.

What HT said X 1000! Some of the best breeders in the country are "back yard" breeders. However, It seems that the good back yard breeders tend to be breeding pointing dogs. If I were to get a lab, it would be from a big, well respected breeder with lots of refrerences. Labs have too many health issues not to do your homework and get a well breed one. Im a brit guy, and we don't really have a lot of "big" brit breeders. Most of the great brits come from "back yard" breeders that breed like H.S. said........... BUT, like everyone else said, if your primary goal is ducks and geese, then get a lab. If its upland, then get the GSP. Id still pick a Brit over a GSP for a house dog/hunting buddy just because of their size, but thats just me.