Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Bore conditioning, cleaning copper fouling, and practical accuracy?

When I got my wife's customized rifle from the smith, I got a set of instructions as to how to "shoot in" the barrel. I was to shoot about fifty rounds, super cleaning out copper fouling every five, then ten, etc. What I want to know is how this will improve PRACTICAL accuracy? I don't mean a 1/4" change in grouping at 100 yards, but the ability to hit a diner plate sized kill zone shooting offhand at 100 yards, or prone at 250. In short, is all this stuff of real interest only for accuracy freaks, or does it have real big game hunting applications?

Doc,<P>I think a break-in procedure is something that should be done. I too am not sure if it always helps, but it never hurts. A typical break-in procedure allows you to get used to the rifle, fire-form brass, and slows down your shooting so you allow the throat to become nitrided and reduce throat erosion. <P>I have had good results from my Pac-Nor barrels, even when they haven't been broken in. However, they are lapped to a very smooth finish. Factory barrels are rougher and probably benefit more from a dedicated break-in.<P>As to improving practical accuracy, I suppose it depends on how much you shoot. A properly broken in barrel may foul less than one that isn't broken in. If it fouls less, it will probably maintain it's accuracy longer and will be easier to clean. Of course, none of this is a sure thing, and you'll never know if you turned a mediocre barrel into a good one. because you don't know how it would have shot if you hadn't broken it in.<P>I guess it's like breaking in a new automible or a new set of gears. Most of the time, it probably won't make any difference. However, it never hurts and may make a big difference.<P>I have a different take on accuracy than you do. Clean, quick kills come from precise shot placement, and an accurate rifle makes precise shot placement easier. <P>I also think accurate rifles DO make a difference when shooting from unsteady positions. The less accurate a rifle, the more error can be introduced form any shooting position. If I have a 3 moa 30-30, I would take a rested shot on a deer at 200 yds. Although I prefer much tighter tolerances, I can accept bullet placement into a 6" circle at 200 yds. <P>However, if I am shooting offhand and can only consistently hold a 5 moa offhand group, then even 100 yds is too far for that 3 moa rifle since there is potenially for an 8 moa group. That doesn't even consider errors in range estimation, parallax error, wind, tempweature difference causing changes in point of aim, a swollen wooden stock causing a shift in aimpoint, etc. Now if I have a 1 moa rifle, then the 100 yd shot falls within a reasonable group size, even if I can only hold 5 moa offhand. <P>Clearly, shooting skill is a very large variable, and we should shoot as much as we can from all the positions we are likely to use in the field. We as humans are often inconsistent in our performace--ie, we have good days and bad days. We don't have 100% control over ourselves. But we can eliminate the variable of an inaccurate rifle, buy finding good loads, using stable stocks, good optics, etc.<P>I am one of those guys who will spend a lot of time to get that 1/4 moa improvement. It gives me confidence in my rifle and shooting ability, and increases my familiarity with my rifle. I rate my rifles by the worst groups they shoot when I consider range limitations. I have a sinking feeling many (of course, no one here does this) rates their rifle(s) by best groups. Often, that is two holes 1/4" apart with the third one 3/4" away to make a 1" group at 100 yds. <P>That type of group scares me. I always wonder if that bullet 3/4" away will exponentially deviate as the range increases. (IE at 200 yds there are two 1/2" apart with the third 3" away.) I imagine many guys would take such a load hunting, but keep working on the load until the flyers go away. <P>Anyway, that's my take on the break-in thing. It goes without saying a target gun should be broken in.<P>Blaine

Doc,<BR>There are two things going on here.<BR>"Hunting accuracy and performance" and <BR>"maximum accuracy and performance".<BR>A guy can go buy any rifle off of the rack and expect that it will hit a critter at 100yds and after a swab with Hoppes and some 3&1 oil be OK for the next season.<BR>The next level up requires some "Love" on the part of the rifleman to maintain.<BR>You can get to work in a Ford Escort,but the same trip in a Mustang adds the intangible joy to the trip.The same can be said of custom rifles and maxed out factory rifles.<BR>Proper break in,and maintenence of both the factory rifle and customs ensures that intangible is always there.<BR>Do what ya gotta do.<BR>Myself I see no other option than to max out what I have paid for,and it adds greatly to the satisfaction of owning any firearm.<BR>Some look at rifles as tools,and then some folks like me look at rifles as an extension of their being.Just as we strive to further and improve ourselves we let this mentality bleed over to our arms.<BR>"Without me it is useless,without my rifle I am useless" Creed of the U.S. marine.<BR>My advice is to follow the 'smiths guidelines and relish in the performance of the thing,or all the love put into it,and all the cash you put into it will go unnoticed.<BR>Cheers!<BR>E4E

Some folks believe a properly broken in barrel will not only foul less but will be less prone to radically shift POI from a clean to a fouled bore. In other words a polished bore (from proper break-in)may not require bullet jacket material to fill those imperfections in the bore in order to get consistent accuracy and so a clean bore may settle in after one shot or not even be that far of on the fouling shot. These are potentail benefits that you can have for the life of the rifle by investing a little time up front.

I'm going to post this here too, since it seems like an appropriate spot.<P>I have been communicating with an accomplished bench rest shooter who is, according to him, successfully breaking in his barrels in very few shots using an old product in a new way. Specifically a colloidal graphite suspension. He, nor I, have any financial interest in this stuff. I would just like some others, particularly someone with a new custom barrel to try it out and report results. I bought a bottle of it and a bottle of the oil, for $12 each, plus $3 shipping. I have not used it yet, and, in addition, at the present time, do not have a new custom barrel. I am going to try it on some new factory barrels. Also seems to help old barrels too, according to the BR shooter. You could probably get by with just the suspension for testing purposes. There seems to me to be no downside here, minus the cost of the bottle of stuff, since graphite is one of the fouling components of gunpowder. If someone would like more info, please e mail me at Sixtlghornaol.com. PS, I want to stress that this guy is not some off the wall nut, he has a bore scope and is a very serious shooter and his observations with this CG suspension are cogent. AND he and I are NOT selling it.

Doc,<P>I am probably fussier (is that a word?) then most when it comes to breaking in a barrel. Although the method your "smith" gave versus the "method" I have been taught to use vary, hopefully you will net better results. I know I will get slammed for this next one but here goes anyhow. Never EVER use a bore brush. All you need is a can of JB bore cleaner, Sweets, Kroil, and if you use Moly coated bullets a can of "Top Engine Cleaner". There are other products besides "Sweets" that works also. <P>If you do use a brass,bronze or worse yet S/S bore brush your going to make your barrel rougher, not smoother. Then again I learned from Bench Rest Shooters and what do they know about accuracy? LOL.<P>Don

FWIW, I spend the time to break in a barrel with the shoot/clean/repeat method. Like others have said, It only costs time, is easy and if it improves something that I paid hard earned $ for, I'll try it.<BR>Besides, it is a good excuse to handle your new rifle.<BR>Good things come to those who wait.

Doc, I don't know what the best way is. But I do know what I will do with my next new barrel, and it is close to what DonK said. No brushes for me. Before I ever shoot it, I'll work it over pretty well with JB or something a bit more aggressive, finishing with JB and then just cleaning solvent. <P>I hope you're happy with the new gun! Talus

Excuse me, I should have said "no metal brushes for me." I would use a nylon brush.<P>Stainless steel brushes in rifle bores -- what's wrong with that picture?<P><BR>Talus